we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

ok, this may sound dumb...but

if you are at a table of bad poker players, players who are willing to draw to aca hand, regardless of odds, or try to catch runner runner to any two suited cards, or call with any overcard to any board, that type of player, who doesn't know he is bad...DOES ANY OF THE "STRATEGY" MATTER.
i guess on some level it does, if you take the odds away, you will get paid off better when they miss there draws, and you can punish them, but it all appears to degenerate into a game of chance, with everything riding on the run of the cards.

i guess what i am saying is this, i am tired of playing against oppenents with no clue. tired of watching an idiot call half his stack on the flop with nothing but ace seven, and a runner runner straight draw, and the other half on an inside straight draw and overcard, and catch lucky to win the hand. is there an online site that isn't full of morons, or do i have to find a casino game to find actual intelligent players

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

lots of chasers and passive players will definetly increase your variance, but also increase your long term profits. If you play with people who will call with bad odds, you'll make a LOT of money off of them in the long run. back when I played $25NL, I won a lot of big pots from players called pot-sized bets on the flop and turn, just to fold on the river when they miss.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

There's always UB 50-100 NL. Have fun!

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

move up, no chasers, they'll be glad to have people like you. Next patient!

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

Yes. Much of strategy in poker is how to take advantage of opponents mistakes, like the ways you mentioned, making them pay extra for draws knowing they will call with terrible odds, etc. etc.

Poker Strategy @
www.aces-up.net

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

[ QUOTE ]
do i have to find a casino game to find actual intelligent players

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost pissed my pants! Put a warning in the title before you say stuff like this!

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's always UB 50-100 NL. Have fun!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOVE IT!

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

dude move up so people respect your raises.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

There are lots of residents in Las Vegas who make their entire living from such people. They sit at low-limit tables all day waiting for them to arrive. So clearly it is a matter of playing the right game in the right circumstance.

It occurs to me that if one cannot alter one's game to beat a bunch of maniacs then what chance does that person have at beating highly skilled players?

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

you should move up. people will respect your raises.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

I dont think luck matters at all. When playing calling stations, make pot sized bets on the flop and turn when its most likely your ahead. I think from what you describe you going to far with medium strong hands. If the flop comes ace high and you have ace king, it is not good to get your entire stack in over the next 3 streets. You will have no idea if one of the drawers has caught an odd two pair, pick a better spot.

With constant 2/3 pot sized bets on good flops, there will be a lot of variance but I gaurentee time will take care of everything.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

[ QUOTE ]
you should move up. people will respect your raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'm a newbie so may I don't know any better but...
This seems like an avoidance of the issues.
I know from my history in speed chess playing fish that because they are "stupid" they are harder to play against....
Hard in the sense that you can’t go into auto pilot. You’ve got to deal with their lame ideas and exploit it or most often I would simplify down to a boring ending and watch them drown. However it was important to develop a method or plan to deal with the weak.
The same must be true in poker.

Besides its folks like that will pay for your kid’s college tuition
.

One should move up cause they have mastered the land that they currently live in.
Not to avoid bad players that they’ve not figured out how to beat….

The only out I’d give you is this…..

I have “issues” with a low limit holdem, it bores the hell of me at times.
However it’s where I believe I need to pay my dues to get better.

So I have a low limit holdem bankroll and I have a Sit-N-Go bankroll.

One is developing skills, the other is just to have a little fun too….
You could split your time just so you stay sane….

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

I've got a question. I've been playing poker for about a 1.5 years now. Why don't people every call my allins with Ace high and a runner runner straight draw? It just doesn't happen. Barring sometimes when the dude is just disgustingly short stacked.

I keep hearing about the sickly god awful calls, but I don't get this kind of action anywhere I go. Where do you people play?

Maybe I've been playing in casinos too much, its where all the good players are.

blake

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

[ QUOTE ]
it all appears to degenerate into a game of chance, with everything riding on the run of the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what it always is.

Yes, strategy does matter; however, your strategy is different against 9 loose/passives than 9 tight/aggressives.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it all appears to degenerate into a game of chance, with everything riding on the run of the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what it always is.

Yes, strategy does matter; however, your strategy is different against 9 loose/passives than 9 tight/aggressives.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think his is.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

Take the bad players. Trust me it is much better playing bad players then a TAG. In reality I feel the best players to be against are those that think 1-2 levels beneath you and are predictable. Keeping players predictable takes aggression. This keeps them off balance and guessing at your hand. It also makes them only raise or reraise when they have a real hand.

Bet for value but read the board and read the player.

Like K72 rainbow board and you have AJ and the noon calls a 2/3 pot sized bet on the flop well then you have to give him credit for a pair. No draws.

If you play live watch for tells. The old weak means strong and strong means weak is very accurate with these players. Live I can tell when some noob is trying to get tricky with AA by raising a little, quietly betting, sighing after a flop, and so on.

All of them look at their hands if 2 flush or 2 straight come on the board which means they don't have it.

quick calls means draws, slow delayed timed called means monsters.

Mind you this is for weak bad players. Its natural for them to act this way, its psychological.

Online its harder. Players are better. Keep track of them. If a table is too tough move to another with noobs. If there is a LAG noob move to his left, you will make a TON of cash. See if they call down A high, if they do dont bluff, Do they call down with any pair... if so value bet more. See what they raise with.

The variance is high when you win 6-7 small pots in a row then some donk sucked out with the gut in a large pot and takes all that profit away in one hand. But the profit is there. When you win the large pot its going to be sweeter than when they win from you.

Be aggresive and keep control. So they are afraid to raise unless they are sure they have you beat. This keeps them predictable. Don't get frustrated if you get sucked out 3-4 times in a row. Its part of the deal. I have had nights where the noobs get frisky and keep hitting with crap.

Presonally I like 6 max. Allows you to play more hands and use your skill better. I play position a lot.

Most important thing is that donks rarely get tricky. Dumb down your thinking. Whats obvious IS correct. You bet huge on the flop due to a flush draw and they insta call you then the obvious is that they have the draw. When the draw comes and you bet and they raise all in dont overthink. They have the draw.

"but I bet the pot, they didnt have pot odds to call for a flush draw. He must know that"

No he doesnt he's a donk.

I have found only 1-3 players in my tournament area that think beyond their hand. 10% of the tournament players are good in my area. 90% are idiots.

If they have a pair and you reraise them preflop they think you have AK and push. If they have AK they think you have a small pair and push. Its simple.

Play aggressive, play position, and bet appropriate because most of the they will be calling with crap. Aggressiveness means they become predictable because they fear you, also means they tilt.

Now I am not sure if this is right but when I am faced with a difficult decision like a 3rd str8 or 3rd flush comes on board and I think the fish has it... then I bet an amount that looks suspicious but is enough to gain me information, looks like I hit the draw and am trying to be sneaky, and allows me to dump the hand if I am beat. If just large enough not to look like I am weak and worried but not big enough for me to lose a ton of chips when I am beat.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

The majority of winning players' profit at poker will not be the result of brilliant strategy, but rather the result of mistakes made by opponents. Thus, the more idiots at the table, the bigger the potential for profit. Now, that higher rate of profit may also have higher variance, but that's a small price to pay (in the long run).

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

[ QUOTE ]
do i have to find a casino game to find actual intelligent players

[/ QUOTE ]

You will often be disappointed if you go to the casino to find intelligent players.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do i have to find a casino game to find actual intelligent players

[/ QUOTE ]

You will often be disappointed if you go to the casino to find intelligent players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Much more often than online, at similar limits.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck incre
 

Wow, i haven't been to this forum for a long time, but I have to respond to this one.

Casino players, in general, are an order of magnitude (at least) worse than online players.

1/2 online plays like 5/10 or 10/20 where I play--mostly Commerce, Bike, and occasional trips to LV.

Yes, these live players are amazingly bad. At a 1/2 game at commerce it is not uncommon for most pots to be 6 or 7 handed. As a "good" player, you will either clean up, or take a beating.

At any rate, you should really not bother with these game at a casino as the rake and tip will negate almost all of your skill advantage.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

What you're talking about is winning hands, regardless of pots/pot size.

Simply put:

Would you rather your KK win 8 times out of 10, netting you let's say 20 BB overall.

Or would you rather you KK win 2 times out of 10, each time netting a pot 25-30 BB? FOr a net result of about 40 BB overall.

Don't focus on winning hands, focus on winning money.

If you lose with AA 6 times in a row to junk and then make an absolute KILLING on it the 7th time you're going to come out better than had you won 3-4 baby pots.

Re: we all talk strategy, but against crappy oppenents does luck increase
 

Just so you know, the online players are, as a whole, tougher than the average B&M players.