opening an underground card room
 

I posted this in Money Making & Business, but didn't get any answers.

I've searched around the site for about a half hour, but I couldn't really find this question, other then some kid from San Diego getting laughed at for wanting to start up a casino in his living room. The opurtunity to start up a card room has presented itself to me, and I want some advice for making a go of it. Has this question been asked before? Can anybody point me towards the right topic(s) to get some answers? If not, can anybody give me some tips and advice?

Appreciate any help

Re: opening an underground card room
 

I used to manage one of these. Opening an underground room isn't much differnt than openign a legal room. Make sur eyou have a plan to get people out of jail if it gets raided. Ours was a small operation. We just had a couple of tables and and a couople fo pit games.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

I am pretty sure this is a banned subject, check the sticky at the top. We don't post about anything illegal and most areas of the country private cardrooms are illegal.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

I remember seeing this thread a while back. There is a lot of good advice there. You should check it out.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

One thing that is different than a regular cardroom is of course that you need to keep the room low key.

In most places the policce don't want to bother busting up poker games, but many times operators don't give them any choice. Things like noise complaints/parking issues get complaints from people who live in the area and the police have no choice but to take action. Keep things away from residential areas, don't tolerate players getting out of control loud and noisy.

Do not pretend like your business is legal. This causes problems, first your customers don't act with the proper discretion if you give them some bogus excuse to believe that the game is legal. Second if you convince enough people that it is legal other people start running games openly and that gets police attention.

Watch the money lending. Every underground room I played in had to lend money or stake players at some point to keep games going. Don't let it get out of hand and be prepared to write off some losses.

Keep out other illegal activity which may attract police attention, don't tolerate open drug use or drug sales, don't serve alcohol.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
Watch the money lending. Every underground room I played in had to lend money or stake players at some point to keep games going. Don't let it get out of hand and be prepared to write off some losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Money lending is the key to a good underground game. We often lent moeny to peopel we knew weren't going to pay us back, it was like paying a prop. What you have to be prepared to do is if someone owes money and quits coming you have to get them back in the game. Normally what we did if someone was one th books and quit comming around we would call them up and tell htem not to worry about that jsut to come back. If they still didn't come around we would call them again and offer an incentive to return ("don't worry about that $1k you owe us, come down and I'll put you in the game for $100 and see how you do"). The key to this is being on top of how much you are loaning out versus how much the game is dropping. If the game drops $150 an hour it is a good move to "loan" $100 an hour to keep it from breaking up.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

wouldn't it make more sense to just stake people that you knew instead? Or is the goal to try and get those people to come back and spend their own money to play? There's gotta be better ways to find players for your game.

Also, if there are other card rooms in town, how does it usually work? Do they get territorial, or what?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't it make more sense to just stake people that you knew instead? Or is the goal to try and get those people to come back and spend their own money to play? There's gotta be better ways to find players for your game.

Also, if there are other card rooms in town, how does it usually work? Do they get territorial, or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

They will spend their own money. Genreally you want to keep the main attractions at your games. If you have players that will routinely lose $1k at a 3-6 game it isn't a big deal to loan them another $1k and only get paid back half of it or so. One of the real skills in maintaining underground games is managing the credit correctly because you don't want to gove away so much that you go broke, but you want to keep the fish in action as much as possible. There were other games around, we generally had a more competivie rake structure, better dealers, and made credit avialable to keep players coming to our place.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

Once you find the location, hire good people to dig up the ground so you dont have any problems later on.

-J

Re: opening an underground card room
 

so if there is no competition in the town i'm going to, or i don't know about it atleast, what do you think I could get away with rake wise? 1/20 unlimited? or $10 cap?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

I'm thinking $5 max.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
Once you find the location, hire good people to dig up the ground so you dont have any problems later on.

-J

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking for some extra money this summer?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure this is a banned subject, check the sticky at the top. We don't post about anything illegal and most areas of the country private cardrooms are illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a legitimate topic because the OP is the one taking the risk. Threads about an illegal card room when the poster doesn't have the expressed support from the card room owner isn't allowed. I hope that helps clear up any misunderstanding.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am pretty sure this is a banned subject, check the sticky at the top. We don't post about anything illegal and most areas of the country private cardrooms are illegal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a legitimate topic because the OP is the one taking the risk. Threads an illegal card room when the poster doesn't have the expressed support from the card room owner isn't allowed. I hope that helps clear up any misunderstanding.


[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, I paint with too wide a brush.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

Don't have the game in a strip mall where all the stores are closed at night, and therefore there should not be twenty cars in the parking lot. Location is key. Keep it small (2, maybe 3 tables) and you should be okay. I know you may be thinking bigger, but trust me, you can make a lot of money running two tables.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
I posted this in Money Making & Business, but didn't get any answers.

I've searched around the site for about a half hour, but I couldn't really find this question, other then some kid from San Diego getting laughed at for wanting to start up a casino in his living room. The opurtunity to start up a card room has presented itself to me, and I want some advice for making a go of it. Has this question been asked before? Can anybody point me towards the right topic(s) to get some answers? If not, can anybody give me some tips and advice?

Appreciate any help

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be in your best interest to help the local DA get into office if you know what I mean.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
I posted this in Money Making & Business, but didn't get any answers.

I've searched around the site for about a half hour, but I couldn't really find this question, other then some kid from San Diego getting laughed at for wanting to start up a casino in his living room. The opurtunity to start up a card room has presented itself to me, and I want some advice for making a go of it. Has this question been asked before? Can anybody point me towards the right topic(s) to get some answers? If not, can anybody give me some tips and advice?

Appreciate any help

[/ QUOTE ]

Find that thread, ask him if he is looking for a partner. You can be: MGM and he can be: Mirage.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure this is a banned subject, check the sticky at the top. We don't post about anything illegal and most areas of the country private cardrooms are illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a legitimate topic because the OP is the one taking the risk. Threads about an illegal card room when the poster doesn't have the expressed support from the card room owner isn't allowed. I hope that helps clear up any misunderstanding.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhhhh... say what?

[ QUOTE ]

While using 2+2 website, you may not post or transmit any unlawful, threatening, abusive, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, profane, or otherwise objectionable information of any kind; including without limitation any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any local, state, national or international laws.


[/ QUOTE ]

But no skin off my nose. I kinda like these threads.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

You also have to pay attention to security. The more business you do the more it's likely that your operation will get robbed or the customers coming and going will get robbed.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
You also have to pay attention to security. The more business you do the more it's likely that your operation will get robbed or the customers coming and going will get robbed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because of who I am related to, and the people who will be playing in my games, there won't be too many people brave enough to rob my game.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because of who I am related to, and the people who will be playing in my games, there won't be too many people brave enough to rob my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make sure to account for those who are stupid enough.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because of who I am related to, and the people who will be playing in my games, there won't be too many people brave enough to rob my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, the Eskimo mafia?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because of who I am related to, and the people who will be playing in my games, there won't be too many people brave enough to rob my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make sure to account for those who are stupid enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep.

ohio has conceal and carry permits, maybe you ought to look into getting one of those...been a little lazy (you have to take 2 6-hour classes) myself, but i know a couple people that jumped through the hoops, and at any given time, they might have a .380 in their waist...

Re: opening an underground card room
 

...and now that i'm thinking about it, if your state has conceal and carry, you may want to let people know that your card club doesn't allow guns.

just a quick little reminder before somebody loses a pot, and pulls out a gun..

Re: opening an underground card room
 

unfortunately i'm in Canada, so I don't think I will have any guns at the game. That doesn't mean I can't have some baseball bats lying around though. And a 400 lbs. black guy named bubba sitting at the door.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
ohio has conceal and carry permits, maybe you ought to look into getting one of those...

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I don't think a card room in B.C. needs to worry about dimwits in Ohio.
2. It is probably the people without conceal and carry permits you should be more worried about.
3. An Ohio conceal and carry permit for the OP won't do him much good in B.C.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
unfortunately i'm in Canada, so I don't think I will have any guns at the game. That doesn't mean I can't have some baseball bats lying around though. And a 400 lbs. black guy named bubba sitting at the door.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Why does he have to be black?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
unfortunately i'm in Canada, so I don't think I will have any guns at the game. That doesn't mean I can't have some baseball bats lying around though. And a 400 lbs. black guy named bubba sitting at the door.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Why does he have to be black?

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Why do you assume he is made up?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
unfortunately i'm in Canada, so I don't think I will have any guns at the game. That doesn't mean I can't have some baseball bats lying around though. And a 400 lbs. black guy named bubba sitting at the door.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Why does he have to be black?

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Why do you assume he is made up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing the "bubba" reference gave it away.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ohio has conceal and carry permits, maybe you ought to look into getting one of those...

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I don't think a card room in B.C. needs to worry about dimwits in Ohio.
2. It is probably the people without conceal and carry permits you should be more worried about.
3. An Ohio conceal and carry permit for the OP won't do him much good in B.C.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Probably not a cardroom in ontario either.
2. definately agreed, although if somebody has a weapon on them, you don't want them pulling it out in the middle of a robbery. Only bad things happen.
3. Probably wouldn't work in Ontario either.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]


*sigh*

Why does he have to be black?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I don't know any 400 lbs white guys named bubba

Re: opening an underground card room
 

Since you live in BC where they do have legal rooms. What are you going to do get people to play in an underground? What is the nearest legal room? If it's l hour or less you room may not get off the ground.....

Re: opening an underground card room
 

i live in bc, but i'm moving to ontario to do this. and the closest legal poker i know of would be casino niagra 4 hours away. anything closer to kitchener?

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because I don't know any 400 lbs white guys named bubba



[/ QUOTE ]

Come on down south aways. If you weigh less than 300 pounds and named Bubba, the big guys will pick on you.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

Brantford has a casino which is like 30-40 minutes from Kitchener. They have about 12 tables. Plus Niagara is only 2 or 2.5 hours away tops. I don't think you've found a good location.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

I guess you are right about the card rooms being there. But that doesn't mean a local one can't turn a profit. If you are a 5 minute drive away from a card game, you are more likely to go then if it takes you 45. I know a lot of people in the area, so that's why i think i can make a go of it there.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are a 5 minute drive away from a card game, you are more likely to go then if it takes you 45.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if the 5 minute away room is not known or regulated. I'll take the safe and secure, fish filled room that takes another 40 minutes to get to any day of the week.

[ QUOTE ]
I know a lot of people in the area, so that's why i think i can make a go of it there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a hard time believing that you're going to attract very many people outside of that circle of people you know. So if you know enough people to keep games going, and don't like them enough to rip them apart with a rake, go nuts.

Re: opening an underground card room
 

Your best bet to have a succesful room is table stakes big bet poker. Limit your games to 1/2 100 max NL and your game can be sustained for a while. The charity casinos surrounding Toronto aren't allowed to have big bet games beyond 1 table tournies. So you will find most of the undergrounds in Toronto have big bet games now. Just don't try and kill the golden goose by having decent buyin big bet games unless you have the players to warrant it, as your game could dry up real quick if the donks tap.......

Re: opening an underground card room
 

tworooks??

Re: opening an underground card room
 

maybe I can track that guy down and get some advice. His room must have been going for quite some time now [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]