Official and Final ZeeJustin Thread (was) Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

I see that ZJ has been making strat posts again in the HSNL and MSNL forums in the past few days. So the question I put to other 2+2'ers is whether he is rehabilitated in their eyes or not. Notice that rehabilitation implies taking full and complete responsiblity, making restitution, and pledging to avoid any further bad behaviour in the future.

In his last poor attempts to rehabilitate himself, the I Screwed Up thread and his self-serving offer on his website (since removed I believe) to donate money won from others to a charity if stars would let him play again, he still didn't meet all the criteria for rehabilitation IMO which are:

1) Admit he knew multiaccounting was cheating from the very start;
2) Admit that party's actions even if much more harsh than other sites were fully justified punishments for his cheating;
3) Admit that it is wrong to shield the identity of other cheaters;
4) Pledge to be a 100% ethical and honest player in the future.


To me, knowing human nature, it isn't even really necessary that he is sincere in the above as long as doesn't state that fact, as he needs to "play the game" and "talk the talk", just like a wise criminal would in court who really didn't regret his actions but only getting caught.

But he hasn't even done that. And not having done that, he didn't even have the decency to get a new anonymous poster account and skulk around in the dark as unrepentant cheaters should.

Although many in these forums have stated he should never be forgiven or shown any respect, I have never taken that position. My opinion is just that he needs to take full responsiblity, after which he should be accepted, though he should understand it will take a lot of time and a track record of ethical behaviour to regain his reputation in the eyes of most other players.

So until he actually meets the conditions above, which I believe are reasonable and the minimum necessary, I believe that posters here should shun him and not respond to his posts. If the site owners wanted to ban him I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm not advocating that here. Just that he shouldn't expect to come back here not having answered the justified criticisms of his half-truths and evasions in the thread above a few months ago and expect that he should be accepted on his own terms. And if he gets some harsh responses in reply until he does take that full responsiblity, then I don't believe the mods should delete same as they have been doing, because he doesn't deserve the same respect other posters are entitled to.


Note to mods: Please don't move this to ATF as previous discussion threads about him have been in NVG and because this isn't about improving the forums, which is the purpose of ATF. It's simply about sticking a big scarlet C on ZJ's forhead and treating him accordingly until he mans up and truly rehabilitates himself.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

Good post

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

I believe that posters here should shun him and not respond to his posts.

dumb post, i believe that posters here should do whatever the hell they want.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Notice that rehabilitation implies taking full and complete responsiblity, making restitution, and pledging to avoid any further bad behaviour in the future.

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He made a (half-hearted) apology, was "fined" 100k by party, admitted it was wrong to "grandma", wrote a better apology, attempted a plan to give money to charity. What more do you want the guy to do?

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

I answered that in my post CSC. Take full responsibility. In legal terms this would be the same as saying that an Alford plea won't cut, but that a full allocution is necessary.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

An oldie but a goodie:

http://www.zbasic.com/hall.jpg
(My entry from the greatest thread I ever started )

P.S. I actually think the mod's locking his ZeeJustin acct (but letting him create a new anon one starting w/ 0 posts) seems like a just punishment, as far as online discussion boards go. Have him forfeit the goodwill (not that he had much left) he built up via thousands of posts as ZeeJustin. Of course he can always tell people who he is, but that's the kind of setback I think he deserves here.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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attempted a plan to give money to charity.

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WTF does that mean? He said he was going to do it but didn't? LOL

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

personally, i can't stand zeejustin. but if you have something to say to him, say it to his face. don't start a mob because you can't handle getting your azz handed to you. also, he sucks donkey ballz at cash games.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

streetz,

This thread is to his face, and I and others responding haven't just been conducting some PM campaign behind his back. He has the opportunity not only to reply here, but to bump the thread I linked and answer the questions and criticisms put to him, instead of just bowing out as he did when the replies to his evasions and half-truths got intense.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. I actually think the mod's locking his ZeeJustin acct (but letting him create a new anon one starting w/ 0 posts) seems like a just punishment, as far as online discussion boards go.

[/ QUOTE ]

post counts....LOL, might as well be an e-penis contest!

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

i never saw that pic...but, that is priceless.
i literally laughed out loud.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

why do you need him to apologize YET AGAIN? What does he owe you? You, and people like you, have lambasted him for over six months now. His "cheating" was far from the worst case of cheating, and a large percentage of our community WILL explore cheating at some point in their carreer, USUALLY involving colusion, which is far more severe than merely having multiple entries in the same tourney. Why do we have to rehash the "ZJ issue" yet again? You're not going to get a response from him that will satisfy you.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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3) Admit that it is wrong to shield the identity of other cheaters;


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What's the overall concensus on this one? How many people would actually rat out thier friends in this spot?

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

Nobody.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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This thread is to his face

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for some reason this is the funniest thing i've read in a long while.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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3) Admit that it is wrong to shield the identity of other cheaters;


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What's the overall concensus on this one? How many people would actually rat out thier friends in this spot?

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But, didn't he admit that those people are no longer his friends? Ya know, gave the whole 'hanging with the wrong crowd' cliched excuse?

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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This thread is to his face

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for some reason this is the funniest thing i've read in a long while.

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damn zee, right in yo face man! don't tell me you're gona lie down and take this! ZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

I heard heard he just moved on to heroin, which isn't half as bad as playing two names at once.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

I doubt that he is rehabilitated. In any event, it's kind of disgusting how that Jman guy and a couple of other posters in HSNL are swinging from ZJ's nutsack. It seems like that Jman guy started his threads just so ZJ could post in them. It's kind of creepy. Jman was probably another multi-accounter, but he just never got caught.

And Cardsharp, what is this [censored] about a large majority of 2+2ers would collude if given the chance. That is so much crap. ZJ is a known cheater and everyone else on 2+2 is a non-cheater until proven otherwise. Don't try and drag down the rest of the site because one person cheated.

Personally, I don't think 2+2 should ban him. However, I feel he should take it upon himself to never post on his old "ZeeJustin" account and start a new account if he wants to post here. Personally, I don't like being part of a site where a known cheater feels comfortable posting under the name he got caught cheating under. It's like he still wants to re-build that damn ZeeJustin brand name which turned everyone off even before he got caught cheating. I think the fact that he is trying to come back under his old name shows that he is still the same old misguided ZJ.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that he is rehabilitated. In any event, it's kind of disgusting how that Jman guy and a couple of other posters in HSNL are swinging from ZJ's nutsack. It seems like that Jman guy started his threads just so ZJ could post in them. It's kind of creepy. Jman was probably another multi-accounter, but he just never got caught.

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He's a disgrace to jman's everywhere.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

He cheated, paid 100k, and lost any money that he could get from his name for the foreseeable future. I know people are up in arms about the harm done to the online poker world, but thats life.

He may or may not be a dirtbag, but give it a rest already.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

So you seem to be pretty cozy with ZJ. Is that scumbag back to playing on Party or Stars?

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
An oldie but a goodie:

http://www.zbasic.com/hall.jpg
(My entry from the greatest thread I ever started )

P.S. I actually think the mod's locking his ZeeJustin acct (but letting him create a new anon one starting w/ 0 posts) seems like a just punishment, as far as online discussion boards go. Have him forfeit the goodwill (not that he had much left) he built up via thousands of posts as ZeeJustin. Of course he can always tell people who he is, but that's the kind of setback I think he deserves here.

[/ QUOTE ]

HOW DID I MISS THIS THREAD THE FIRST TIME?

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

1) Admit he knew multiaccounting was cheating from the very start;
-it's really a gray area. I don't think he realized what he was doing was unethical at the time, and I don't totally blame him. It was like, everyone you know is doing it and party is not directly preventing (even though party should easily be able to detect same ip addresses in the same tournament), why not do it? I honestly think party didn't care until they got complaints, because it was just more rake for them.

2) Admit that party's actions even if much more harsh than other sites were fully justified punishments for his cheating;
-these were not justified. Imagine if he was really rich and for fun deposited 500 million dollars. Then he cheated in one $10 tournament. Does the site have a right to take 500 million dollars, and then not redistribute any amount to the players who were cheated?

3) Admit that it is wrong to shield the identity of other cheaters;
-Ratting out other friends with no benefits is stupid. Nobody rats their friends out unless they get a much lighter punishment.

4) Pledge to be a 100% ethical and honest player in the future.
-I think he sort of did this, no? And anyways, there's a handful of ratholers on 2p2 that are unethical too. Not everyone in the gambling industry is 100% ethical at all times.



In conclusion, get off the man's back.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that he is rehabilitated. In any event, it's kind of disgusting how that Jman guy and a couple of other posters in HSNL are swinging from ZJ's nutsack. It seems like that Jman guy started his threads just so ZJ could post in them. It's kind of creepy. Jman was probably another multi-accounter, but he just never got caught.

And Cardsharp, what is this [censored] about a large majority of 2+2ers would collude if given the chance. That is so much crap. ZJ is a known cheater and everyone else on 2+2 is a non-cheater until proven otherwise. Don't try and drag down the rest of the site because one person cheated.
Personally, I don't think 2+2 should ban him. However, I feel he should take it upon himself to never post on his old "ZeeJustin" account and start a new account if he wants to post here. Personally, I don't like being part of a site where a known cheater feels comfortable posting under the name he got caught cheating under. It's like he still wants to re-build that damn ZeeJustin brand name which turned everyone off even before he got caught cheating. I think the fact that he is trying to come back under his old name shows that he is still the same old misguided ZJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this respondent, especially with what I darkened.

I would like to think that most posters in the forum are honest people who enjoy poker. Its not wise to automatically assume that we all want to somehow cheat.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

Like has been said by multiple people. This subject has been beaten to death already. People make mistakes end of story. He made his and everyone has dragged him into the center of town and tar and feathered him. So let it go. There is no need for these threads to keep coming up.

Plain and simple everyone at the age of 17-21 has done something completely stupid (some things bigger than others granted but that is not the point so don't bring that up as I know you will) that they regret later in life. Making mistakes with ethical decisions is part of growing up and learning, just the same as mistakes are made and learned from in poker play.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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get off the man's back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

I would like to think that most posters in the forum are honest people who enjoy poker.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

Can someone please quote Dids for the 1 millionth time:

"The reason why ZJ is still getting hammered is because he was never taken full responsibility, yadda yadda"

I do agree that this is becoming a very very boring topic, but when you say "get off his back" if makes it sound as if ZJ is the victim.

Some of you have used the argument "he lost money"... You realize that he feels that Party cheated him right? Remember, they "were on a mad rampage"...

Personally, I am done with talking about ZJ. I will likely never meet him in real life.


As for him posting on 2+2, just ignore him if that is your desire.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

zeebo,

All of the sickening justifications for the actions of cheaters revolve around BS arguments that there are worse ones out there. And the reason I'm still on him on this is the "sort of" aspect you mention and his refusal to just take full responsibility, and think that nonetheless he should be accepted here without having done so.

I guess by the reasoning of yourself and others, that Amarillo Slim is still an OK guy because he probably only got his granddaughter to feel his boner through his pants when other perverts went all the way.

There really isn't any "gray area" to this. Either you are an honest player or you're not. Either you take full responsibility for your actions without BS partial justifications or you don't. Either you choose to remain friends with other known cheats or you don't (ending a friendship with other cheats is a decent alternative to ratting them out).

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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I heard heard he just moved on to heroin, which isn't half as bad as playing two names at once.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean he is playing HORSE?

ToT

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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that Amarillo Slim is still an OK guy because he probably only got his granddaughter to feel his boner through his pants when other perverts went all the way.

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You're right. I can't beilieve I didn't think of it before. Its exactly the same.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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that Amarillo Slim is still an OK guy because he probably only got his granddaughter to feel his boner through his pants when other perverts went all the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. I can't beilieve I didn't think of it before. Its exactly the same.

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lol

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In conclusion, get off the man's back.

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Nobody would be on his back if he had come back under some anonymous account. It just shows what an arrogant prick he is to try and come back under the account at which everyone at 2+2 knows he cheated under. Why can't he just post here under an anonymous account like everyone else? Why does he have to make a large portion of posters uncomfortable by posting under the ZeeJustin "brand name?"

This douche has always thought that he was bigger than the game and I have no doubt that he will rationalize whatever new methods of getting an edge on the game he comes up with. It's disgusting that he would force the disgraced "ZeeJustin brand name" back upon us when so many people just want him to disappear. ZJ will always believe in placing himself above all others.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

is that what you tell your children? to run away and hide from their problems instead of standing up and facing them. is that the kind of person you are? it's cool man, i'm not judging you. i don't like judging people i don't know.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

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is that what you tell your children? to run away and hide from their problems instead of standing up and facing them. is that the kind of person you are? it's cool man, i'm not judging you. i don't like judging people i don't know.

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Yes, ZJ is such a man for posting here under the ZeeJustin brand name. He has very much impressed me with his maturity. How are you able to talk with his scrotum in your mouth all the time?

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

He is a kid that made a mistake. Let it go, and move on with your lives! I honestly hope that the majority of people here have more going on in their lives than to honestly worry about a person's status on 2+2. I'm nearly busto and it would be great to divert my focus on another person by bashing them, but who CARES???? ZJ still hangs out with the same crowd (Ozzy, Durr, etc..) from what I can tell on N 82 whatevers blog. Are you going to rip them for not caring? Are you going to assume that they all multi-accounted too? In the grand scheme of things, who gives a crap what someone kid did on the internet years ago. If you don't want him to post then just ignore them. I honestly think it takes balls to post here again after the castration this forum performed on him. Whatever, let it go or get a life.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

Your name is fitting. I had no idea there were so many ZJ nuthuggers.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your name is fitting. I had no idea there were so many ZJ nuthuggers.

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Nuthugger or not. It definitely would have been the cowards way out to just start posting under a different handle.

Re: Is ZeeJustin Rehabilitated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is that what you tell your children? to run away and hide from their problems instead of standing up and facing them. is that the kind of person you are? it's cool man, i'm not judging you. i don't like judging people i don't know.

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Yes, ZJ is such a man for posting here under the ZeeJustin brand name. He has very much impressed me with his maturity. How are you able to talk with his scrotum in your mouth all the time?

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oh yeah man, i love zeejustin. check out my love for him in page 1. talking about other people's maturity. zeejustin might be a dirtbag. but i'm pretty sure from your posts, you're about the same, only 10x dumber. lol