($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

Approximately hand 25. Villian is running 22/14 to this point, not showing his near double-up, playing a turned boat very cleverly later. He has loosened his play considerably since building the stack, including open limping QTo in CO, and calling a reraise (unshown) the following hand.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1045)
UTG+1 (t1135)
MP1 (t2105)
Hero (t1645)
Button (t535)
SB (t4525)
BB (t2510)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t300</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t250, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

Flop: (t700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets t400</font>, SB calls t400

Turn: (t1500) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (t1500) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets t500</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

250 preflop, then 350 on the flop and shut down after he calls you twice. you need to take your stack into consideration when betting, not just the blinds.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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250 preflop, then 350 on the flop and shut down after he calls you twice. you need to take your stack into consideration when betting, not just the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the 250 normally, but I don't mind it too much here.

I actually like limping best here because of the stack. A lot of people see this as weak and will raise to 400... then you push.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

i like a 250 bet pre-flop then your flop bet can be smaller ~300. i don't know if you really want to fire again on the turn or not, but i'm thinking not.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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250 preflop, then 350 on the flop and shut down after he calls you twice. you need to take your stack into consideration when betting, not just the blinds.

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I hate the 250 normally, but I don't mind it too much here.

I actually like limping best here because of the stack. A lot of people see this as weak and will raise to 400... then you push.

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FPS

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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250 preflop, then 350 on the flop and shut down after he calls you twice. you need to take your stack into consideration when betting, not just the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the 250 normally, but I don't mind it too much here.

I actually like limping best here because of the stack. A lot of people see this as weak and will raise to 400... then you push.

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FPS

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Sorry, what does FPS stand for?

EDIT: Oh fancy play syndrome. I don't think this is FPS at all given the stack sizes. I like pushing better than the 250 raise. Limping/pushing are better than that raise.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

I agree with the 250, makes c-betting/folding a little less painful.

The option of pushing the flop has always intrigued me. As in this thread, with a near identical situation.

Curtains:
"Going allin on flop is ok. If they have no pair you win the pot...if they do, and if they decide to call you, you still win 25% of the time, which is important and is a signifigant amount."

As long as we're talking about pushing: Considering the size of the pot that I've created, a FD for villian a possibility, would you consider the ultimate show of strength in pushing your last 900 behind on this turn?

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

i feel like the only two lines you can argue for consistently here is a 250-300/350 cbet line or just pushing preflop.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

Why does everybody hate calling here? Pushing the turn sucks I think for a sit and go. I don't mind it for a cash game or MTT, but it's not good for sng considering how the value of chips change.

Actually as played I like the turn push.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

Raising to 250 is just bad I think. You are praying someone comes over the top of you and you don't have to play post flop. Make is simple by calling or pushing.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

based on stacks and villain i actually think open limping pre is not that bad.

i think limping and pushing are both reasonable, the more i see stacks and the loose/active villain, the more a small open and c-bet is unappealing.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

[ QUOTE ]
I actually like limping best here because of the stack. A lot of people see this as weak and will raise to 400... then you push.

[/ QUOTE ]
The more I think about this, the more I like it. I wouldn't say it's the best line, but I think it has some merit...

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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I actually like limping best here because of the stack. A lot of people see this as weak and will raise to 400... then you push.

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The more I think about this, the more I like it. I wouldn't say it's the best line, but I think it has some merit...

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I made a thread a long time ago about how I used to struggle with these awkward stacks. Like I would have 1450 in mid position and have 99. Then raise 250/300 make a cbet and have to fold on a KQ4 board. Limping is underrated with the akward stack basically... but in this hand if I had 2000+ chips I would raise 100% of the time. Normally I hate limping but it is good with a bad stack... I don't know it takes awhile to sort of see why.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually like limping best here because of the stack. A lot of people see this as weak and will raise to 400... then you push.

[/ QUOTE ]
The more I think about this, the more I like it. I wouldn't say it's the best line, but I think it has some merit...

[/ QUOTE ]

I made a thread a long time ago about how I used to struggle with these awkward stacks. Like I would have 1450 in mid position and have 99. Then raise 250/300 make a cbet and have to fold on a KQ4 board. Limping is underrated with the akward stack basically... but in this hand if I had 2000+ chips I would raise 100% of the time. Normally I hate limping but it is good with a bad stack... I don't know it takes awhile to sort of see why.

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I have to think about it a little bit, but I definitely like the concept. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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i feel like the only two lines you can argue for consistently here is a 250-300/350 cbet line or just pushing preflop.

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250/300 is good
what is it that makes people decide to shove 16 BBs here? i dont understand how that makes ANY sense ---- its not pushbot time fellas

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

The more I think about it, the less I hate limping here. If someone raises that's nice and you can comfortably shove, if you see a flop then you get a cheap shot to hit TPTK, and if you miss you can get away without having lost half your stack.

Someone tell me why limping sucks?

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

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250 preflop, then 350 on the flop and shut down after he calls you twice. you need to take your stack into consideration when betting, not just the blinds.

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Agreed. Everywhere that you can save chips is important.

Re: ($60) Whiffing AK with an awkward stack
 

[ QUOTE ]
The more I think about it, the less I hate limping here. If someone raises that's nice and you can comfortably shove, if you see a flop then you get a cheap shot to hit TPTK, and if you miss you can get away without having lost half your stack.

Someone tell me why limping sucks?

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- picking up the blinds is very nice
- usually the action goes raise-call preflop, check-cbet-fold on the flop and you win a lot of chips.

i'd go 250 preflop (i always go 250 at the 50/100) and 425 on the flop. you want to discourage 44 from calling or QJ from getting cute somehow. then i'd give up.