why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Clearly this is a huge winner for the player, yet there still seems to be a player base that is not increasing. For those who can chime in as to why and who play there please explain your thoughts

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

The endless forum spam?

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

fish and big gamblers, don't give a [censored] about rake.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

It's not worth it. I signed up and played a freeroll around later June.

The ring game traffic is basically non existent. There was *one* Stud Hi/Lo player sitting at two tables waiting for opponents. Yeah...good luck. Omaha Hi/Lo has about one full table and a couple of incomplete ones. There is not one single Stud Hi player on there now. Omaha is non-existent. There isn't even a lot of NLHE action on there. It's either Limit Hold'em or you could pray to get a full table NLHE tables at low limits.

As for the site itself. No. The interface is just horrific. The font for everything on the table screen is just too damn small. The options to act take up nearly a fourth of the entire window. The slide for the bet is way off. Instead of going up in blind increments (30, 60, 90), it goes from 30, 64, 98, 127 and just a whole load of random numbers. Easier just to bet by typing in the number. They also show your hole cards twice: once on the table itself in which they are microscopic and then in the place with all the options where they are magnified a bit. Why not just make them normal sized in the first place? And the whole concept of keeping your folded cards so you can remember them is a great way to piss you off because playing that deuce-six would have given you a six high straight right off the flop (which did happen to me). You can then figuratively punch yourself in the gut for recognizing that you would've busted about six people in one hand in a freeroll. The main window is no better itself. Big window, small space that shows the tables. It's also hard to see what SnGs are full and what aren't at first glance. Tournaments are also not sorted out well, which is a hassle.

Though in case you suck at poker, they leave ads the size of the list of tables to the left of the screen to allow you to take your rake-free money and lose it playing blackjack or sports betting. Gotta love WSEX.

So, positives:

+rake free poker

Negatives:

-Omaha is non-existent
-Every game besides Limit Hold'em might as well be non-existent too
-Horrible interfaces aesthetically and functionally
-Very low ring traffic
-Tournament don't pay out well
-Sit and Go's are available, but never filled
-Frequent points program "useful" for buying into the said [censored] tournaments
-No sign-up bonus
-Horrible referral system

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
fish and big gamblers, don't give a [censored] about rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
And the whole concept of keeping your folded cards so you can remember them is a great way to piss you off because playing that deuce-six would have given you a six high straight right off the flop (which did happen to me). You can then figuratively punch yourself in the gut for recognizing that you would've busted about six people in one hand in a freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know much about the site, never played it, but this is a genius idea! Looks like one fishy already went hook, line, and sinker for it too!!!

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

People choose to pay anywhere from 2bb/100 to 6bb/100 in rake at the major sites because they are lazy. In all honestly the games at wpex are tougher than average but not by much. Getting used to the software is easy. 100% rakeback is so nice and should be especially nice for the low limit holdem players, like 1/2 players who pay 6+ bb/100 to play. That is hardly beatable even with the horrible players at most sites. I play 10/20 and up but if you play 1/2 or 2/4 you are a fool not to play at wpex. BTW 3000 a week in rakeback is pretty nice...

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

from a low limit point of view the sngs fill up but they are 5max, the full ring ones take soo long to fill up.

But ya the rakeback is great if it just had more people then it would be perfect.

Also there are sooo many glitchy bugs, sit out bug, beeping bug, connection issue bug, no option to get more added time on hard allins,etc etc

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

There was *one* Stud Hi/Lo player sitting at two tables waiting for opponents.

Stud8 has two serious bugs in it which is likely the reason it does not ever run there.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

I logged on in the evening and there was 1 game of full-ring NL50 going. Last month there used to be at least 2, but 5-max has taken away half the players.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
There was *one* Stud Hi/Lo player sitting at two tables waiting for opponents.

Stud8 has two serious bugs in it which is likely the reason it does not ever run there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It allows an open pair to 'full bet' on fourth street. It also automatically shuffles your hole cards at showdown with no option to do otherwise. What's the second bug?

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

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Every game besides Limit Hold'em might as well be non-existent

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Every game besides Limit Hold'em might as well be non-existent

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

Where do you people come up with this stuff? I play there and have little trouble finding a NL 400 or NL 200 game at any time of the day. I usually multitable those games. There are ALWAYS plenty of NL 100 and lower tables open during the slower times.

Either way, i love getting those rake rebate statements at the end of the month on top of my winnings against all of those "tight players."!!!

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

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There are ALWAYS plenty of NL 100 and lower tables open during the slower times.

[/ QUOTE ]

If by plenty you mean 1, 2 or 3 per limit, then, yes, you are correct.

They have a decent selection of 2/4 limit and higher tables, but the lower stakes NL offerings are barely worth logging in to see. And in NL, rakeback << table selection.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Because I can not log on without disabling my firewall which i will not do even if they had a negative rake

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

IMO, it is the same reason people will pay more to eat at Le Cirque than White Castle. Sometimes a better product trumps the lowest cost.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

few deposit methods.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

They don't advertise enough, not enough promotions. Problem is you need revenue to fund these things and rake free poker does not allow you to do that. So the fish who are playing Monster and Millions, etc, have never heard of WPX. As for me I really hate the interface, they do not give you nearly enough time to act in the NL games.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Clearly this is a huge winner for the player, yet there still seems to be a player base that is not increasing. For those who can chime in as to why and who play there please explain your thoughts

[/ QUOTE ]
The disconnect protection bug drove me away.

B.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Wait, theres a place you can play RAKE FREE POKER?

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Because of all the bad things I have heard about the software. I should probably check it out for myself though.

Hey Mr GM, when you gonna fix up the software?

Also, I want my hand histories WITHOUT hassle. They don't necessarily need to be instantanous to the hard drive, though that would be nice, but easily, readily, and reliable available. I probably spend as much time studying hand histories as playing. (My results tend to vary)

Mr GM, when you gonna fix the hand history problem?


And.... can you change your screen name without hassle?

Hey Mr GM, I hope you have your ears on.

Tuff Fish aka Tony

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Because of all the bad things I have heard about the software. I should probably check it out for myself though.

[/ QUOTE ]

...you should check it out for yourself. The software is somewhat buggy but not enough to keep someone off.


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Also, I want my hand histories WITHOUT hassle.

[/ QUOTE ]

...this is a legitimate complaint. I've received ZERO hand histories in the past week and just four batches in the past two weeks. That's thousands of hands down the tubes with no recourse for recovery.

Still, not paying rake is a huge incentive to play WPX. It trumps all other problems they have at the site. It is unfortunate that more players have not figured this out.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There was *one* Stud Hi/Lo player sitting at two tables waiting for opponents.

Stud8 has two serious bugs in it which is likely the reason it does not ever run there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It allows an open pair to 'full bet' on fourth street. It also automatically shuffles your hole cards at showdown with no option to do otherwise. What's the second bug?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a split pot the dealer summary and the animation of the chips do not go along with the correct aplit of the pot. The players get the correct amount of money but many think otherwise because of the dealer and animation telling them a different amount.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The endless forum spam?

[/ QUOTE ]


Agreed.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There was *one* Stud Hi/Lo player sitting at two tables waiting for opponents.

Stud8 has two serious bugs in it which is likely the reason it does not ever run there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It allows an open pair to 'full bet' on fourth street. It also automatically shuffles your hole cards at showdown with no option to do otherwise. What's the second bug?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a split pot the dealer summary and the animation of the chips do not go along with the correct aplit of the pot. The players get the correct amount of money but many think otherwise because of the dealer and animation telling them a different amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even worse ... there was a thread is the stud forum where someone posted a HH where the software misranked the low hands and awarded the wrong guy the low half of the pot. Maybe that's the same thing you were talking about though, I don't really know.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, it is the same reason people will pay more to eat at Le Cirque than White Castle. Sometimes a better product trumps the lowest cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

Are you serious??? Last time i checked poker is about making money not about how pretty the screen looks. I mean come on its not like party poker or any of the other sites has bug free software and good support. Well maybe Stars does (If you love full rake and hardly any bonuses). If you really think playing without a HUD and a few minor problems is worth 2-6bb/100 depending on the limit you are playing you are either a really bad player, or really stupid. Actually try it out, for a limit player it is a ridiculous deal. Im going to clear over 100k in rakeback a year from wsex with no problem...Im gonna go out on a limb and say the average 2+2er doesnt even come close to making this at one of the "pretty" sites. Comparing Party Poker or Stars to a high end restaurant is pretty laughable.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

We are still growing. The amount we pay in rakeback every week is still growing.

Hand Histories to Hard Drives, the Disconnect fix, four tabling, and several other issues should be resolved in the next release in September.

I will not be happy until our product is not only the cheapest place to play but the best platform to play. There's not a lot I can do to speed things up at this point other than stand over the developers shoulders and yell "Type faster."

Football is around the corner and there are many WSEX regualar customers who will be back in the sportsbook. I am sure a good number of them may dabble in the poker room. Once they arrive, and we get this next release out, I think we will start to see Scout numbers over 1,000. It's just a guess.

Thanks for playing at WSEX and if you haven't played since June, come on back and try again. I think you'll see some improvements.

Fred Balfour
General Manager
WSEX.com

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

i love that customer support

go find that at party poker

i dont think so

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, it is the same reason people will pay more to eat at Le Cirque than White Castle. Sometimes a better product trumps the lowest cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

Are you serious??? Last time i checked poker is about making money not about how pretty the screen looks. I mean come on its not like party poker or any of the other sites has bug free software and good support. Well maybe Stars does (If you love full rake and hardly any bonuses). If you really think playing without a HUD and a few minor problems is worth 2-6bb/100 depending on the limit you are playing you are either a really bad player, or really stupid. Actually try it out, for a limit player it is a ridiculous deal. Im going to clear over 100k in rakeback a year from wsex with no problem...Im gonna go out on a limb and say the average 2+2er doesnt even come close to making this at one of the "pretty" sites. Comparing Party Poker or Stars to a high end restaurant is pretty laughable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude relax. I was simply pointing out that price is not the only reason people choose one product or service over another. There's probably a better analogy but whatever.

Plenty of people are still playing on Stars and Party. Many of these are well aware of WSEX's rake-free deal. So they are obviously choosing to stay on the other site because the game selection/tournament availability/support/graphics/what have you, is worth the rake to them.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

I am not a big sports bettor but you can be sure that when i want to play a game and the lines WSEX offers are the same as the lines at pinny or olympic or BT i always place my bets through WSEX. THey have definitely gotten more action from me since going rake free.

Thanks for the response and thanks for working on the HH's situation.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

I've put about 30k of action through WSEX sportsbook since they introduced rake-free poker.

Of course, this hasn't actually been beneficial for WSEX thus far. Oh well.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
We are still growing. The amount we pay in rakeback every week is still growing.

Good


I will not be happy until our product is not only the cheapest place to play but the best platform to play. There's not a lot I can do to speed things up at this point other than stand over the developers shoulders and yell "Type faster."

Good, keep yelling

Football is around the corner and there are many WSEX regualar customers who will be back in the sportsbook. I am sure a good number of them may dabble in the poker room. Once they arrive, and we get this next release out, I think we will start to see Scout numbers over 1,000. It's just a guess.

Thanks for playing at WSEX and if you haven't played since June, come on back and try again. I think you'll see some improvements.

Perhaps soon, can you easily change your username on WSEX?

Fred Balfour
General Manager
WSEX.com

[/ QUOTE ]


Hand Histories to Hard Drives, the Disconnect fix, four tabling, and several other issues should be resolved in the next release in September.

NO NO NO NO... You are going the wrong way..!!

Why on earth do you want more multitablers????? You don't collect rake so that argument is out. But they DO collect money from your rec players.. like me.

If I lose my money to a bunch of multitabling tags, I wont be back, and I wont be booking any bets.

Besides, multitablers annoy the rec players by playing SLOW.

Two tables, not four. Who is your target player base anyway?

Tony Tuff Fish ( THE holy mackeral)

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Awhile back another rake free site launched and failed horribly.

The reason being the general public does not understand nor care about rake. If your only angle is something the fish do not know or care about, you can’t attract them. If you can’t attract the fish you’ll never get the sharks.

WSEX cannot afford to advertise the poker site heavily as it's a $0 money making proposition.

My prediction, within the next 3-6 months the WSEX no rake poker room will have a hard time keeping 1 table full 24 hours per day.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

I'm seeing full-page WSEX ads in CardPlayer and Bluff (and perhaps other magazines too) and also are advertising right here on 2+2.

No, it isn't the same as advertising on the WPT. But it is a start anyway. It's not like they aren't marketing at all.

I would go a slightly different direction with the look and feel of the ads to be more noticeable. But it is something.


Here's my marketing suggestion:

my preference instead of the big block 'NO RAKE' with weirdly faded lettering would be to show a graphic of something like, "This week we are paying you an extra $340."
or something like, "Could you use an extra $300 this week?" and then explain that this is the amount that you will GET PAID at the end of the week if you play regularly at WPEX.
There's a big difference in mentality between, "We don't take any of those $1 or $2 rakes out. Lookie at us. We have no rake" vs. "At the end of the week, WE WILL PAY YOU $350 if you play regularly on 1 table at WPEX."

The pop-up on WPEX shows the rake-back calculator and how much you can make.
This isn't even approached in the magazine ads where it just says, "NO RAKE".
Many players don't understand the significance of 'no rake' but do understand the significance of getting an extra $300 (or much more) at the end of the week.

In the ads you could also market WPEX as the "Home of the RakeBack Calculator. Where we show you how much WE WILL PAY YOU at the end of each week." (note that - "WE WILL PAY YOU" is the preferrable language to use vs. "How much you will save" which really doesn't sound much better than a 25% off JCPenny's sale to me).

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

OK - I've never played on WPEX or even considered it...until today.

I need to know HOW the rakeback is calculated. Is it the rake I contribute OR my percent of the table rake (i.e. I get 10% at a 10 person table and 20% at a 5 MAX). I play SLAA (22,6,2) I know it's been discussed many times but I never seem to see a concrete answer. The calculation will influence my decision. Thanks.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

I can't remember how much money I lost to WSEX casino, can I at least get some back or what, at least some roll over bonus......come on.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

If you really are taking out full page ads in cardplayer, explain to people how much rake rapes you in the butt.

Explain that while taking $3 out of a pot when you win $50 doesn't seem like a big deal, 3*10% (win rate)*60 (hpr) *25 hours *52 = $23,400 that would otherwise be in the pocket of the player.

Or demonstrate it on an hourly basis... if you're good enough to beat a $2-$4 game for $15/hr, but pay $18 in rake, you're actually losing when you should be a substantial winner.

"Rake free!" isn't as effective unless your target audience has the implications of this explained to them.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Please be sure to email us once this happens. (The HH part) I'm looking forward to coming back!

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Awhile back another rake free site launched and failed horribly.

The reason being the general public does not understand nor care about rake. If your only angle is something the fish do not know or care about, you can’t attract them. If you can’t attract the fish you’ll never get the sharks.

WSEX cannot afford to advertise the poker site heavily as it's a $0 money making proposition.

My prediction, within the next 3-6 months the WSEX no rake poker room will have a hard time keeping 1 table full 24 hours per day.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take that bet. Find someone to hold the money in escrow and you are on.

Re: why isn\'t wsex more popular??
 

Because playing there is absolute torture. The layout is blinding. It's impossible to tell where you are and where the action is. The concept of having giant cards at the bottom of the screen, near someone else's seat, and the microscopic cards at your actual seat must have been designed by a complete moron for the sole purpose of causing people to misplay their hands.