TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

26 remaining in the Stars $320. I'm 6th in chips and we're 8 handed on this table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

BB (t12526)
UTG (t8443)
UTG+1 (t7142)
Hero (t24701)
MP2 (t19066)
CO (t27993)
Button (t27968)
SB (t9949)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2400</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t2400, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (t5150) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t3200</font>, CO calls t3200.

Turn: (t11550) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t22343 (All-In)</font>, Hero...

--Thoughts--
Firstly, I was just moved to the table and am readless with villain (have never seen him before either).

*FLOP: I obviously hate the flop, but it could very conceivably have hit me so I want to take a shot and rep AK. If I'm raised or called, I’m totally done with it. (If I had a hand with more showdown value (QQ) I would strongly consider checking here but that's another post.)

*TURN: My flop thinking caused me to totally botch this street in my opinion. I basically checked dark in that I hit check before really even noticing the Turn card (b/c after I was called, like I said, I was done with it). I hate hate hate that I checked on the Turn. I put myself in a [censored] spot by showing weakness. He makes this weird overbet shove, and I just hate that I put myself in this spot.

I couldn't really put him on anything that I beat, but again I muddied up the situation by checking the Turn IMO.

wtf do I do?

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

call. He pushed BECAUSE you checked.

Trust me, I have a great read on him [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

What range are you putting him on? I have just about AQ, JJ, 66, and A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], assuming he is not call-bluffing the flop (a silly play on that board IMHO)

oh yeah, I was overstating in the OP when I said I couldn't put him on ANYTHING that I beat.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

all joking aside, this appears to be the classic Pair-With-Draw play. Or maybe two pair.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

This would be a really strange way to play a hand that beats yours especially AQ. I would put him on AJ, KJ, KQ or JJ (pushing because he is scared of all the draws). No way I can find a fold here.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

so, did you call or fold, and what happened?

I call.

AK KJ - 2 pr like KT or JT Even - Not AQ

With AQ he wouldn't be scared, and the all in is 80% a scare bet.

In addition if he had anything but KK or JJ and the board pairs, you have a boat to win

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I never fold this, but I bet the turn because I hate to see this checked through.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

Wait, is there really some question as to what to do on the turn?

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I'll be interested to see the replies, and this is a bigger buy-in than I'm used to, but I call here, in a second. I can think of plenty of hands that I'm beating here and not as many that are beating me and push here to a checked turn.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I'm also very happy checking the turn.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I think you played the turn fairly good actually, assuming you call his all in instantly.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I actually do think it's a little more complicated than "I have a set; I totally call." FWIW, I literally said "I just know I'm beat." Then, rather than thinking it through, I said "[censored] it" w/ an I'm-not-folding-a-set mentality and pushed the call button rather than reason through the hand. Vomit ensued.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I don't understand your reasoning.

4 hands beat you. AQ, Q9, KK, and JJ.

He just called preflop, no KK

AQ and Q9 fold the flop.

JJ maybe, but usually I'd expect a reraise pf.

It is very rare to see one of the first 3 hands, so there is one hand that logically fits with villain's line you lose to. Consider he may have KJ, AK, 66, KQ, a pair+draw, and I don't see any reason at all to fold.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

I like the play. I sometimes do it with a monster against an opponent I know will bet if I check to him on the turn, representing a flop cbet. No way you can fold to the push.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

[ QUOTE ]
I actually do think it's a little more complicated than "I have a set; I totally call."

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you're wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I literally said "I just know I'm beat." Then, rather than thinking it through, I said "[censored] it" w/ an I'm-not-folding-a-set mentality and pushed the call button rather than reason through the hand. Vomit ensued.

[/ QUOTE ]
What are you afraid of? KK? JJ? Did AQ really try to peel off a gutterball? And why would any of these hands bet twice the pot?

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually do think it's a little more complicated than "I have a set; I totally call."

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you're wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I literally said "I just know I'm beat." Then, rather than thinking it through, I said "[censored] it" w/ an I'm-not-folding-a-set mentality and pushed the call button rather than reason through the hand. Vomit ensued.

[/ QUOTE ]
What are you afraid of? KK? JJ? Did AQ really try to peel off a gutterball? And why would any of these hands bet twice the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be amazed to see any of the hands that beat me turned over, depending on what villain's read of me might be. I'd be quite surprised to see him turn over AQ after I'd checked turn and he'd pushed. But the reason for calling is just because I think I'm ahead more times than I'm behind, unless I have a specific read.

I check the turn because I want villain to do just this and then I call. I don't bet the turn because I don't like calling a reraise here. I bet the flop because I bet flops when I've opened with a strong hand most of the time, because there isn't an ace out, and because he's probably going to raise me out if I'm already beaten, unless I'm very far behind.

I agree that there aren't many feasible hands that I'm ahead of come the turn but the fact that he pushes when I check the turn indicates to me that, given the pot odds, the redraws and the chance that he is semi-bluffing makes a call mandatory. Granted, he could play KK like this, or JJ and possibly AQ, but he also can play KJ, KQ or even 99 the same way.

You surely can't fold here?

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

PF - I like the standard raise. There are 26 players left, and, we are thrid in chips at this table, so we would like to avoid those two players if possible. With that said, I am not thrilled that the CO has decided to get involved in a hand with us.

Flop - This is a very bad flop for our hand. It would be nice to have an idea of how your opponent plays. Without a read, my standard play in this situation is to cbet. However a good percentage of hands in his range have hit this flop in some way (draw or pair at minimum). Lets say he calls with suited and unsuited AT+, KQ, QT+, JT, and 55+. Would anyone argue against a cbet here? Forgive me for agruing, but I am always looking to improve my thinking about the game.

Turn - The perfect card. Now we have to find a way to get all of his chips in the middle. You accidently checked and he moved all-in. Perfect.

FOLD??? Like others have said, we are only losing to KK, JJ, and AQ. And we are ahead of MANY hands at this point. BTW, I would eliminate KK and AQ in this spot. IMO, we are only going to lose this hand to JJ or a river card that completes a draw.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

The only hand I think I'm scared of is JJ but there are so many other hands he can have that you beat:

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
66
K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
KJ

Even if he does have AQ you still have about a one in five chance of filling up.

Actually, I'm very scared of JJ now simply because his bet seems either like a semi-bluff or a protection bet. His set of jacks don't look very nice now given that there are two flush draws out there and three to a straight. That still can't justify me laying down this hand though.

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

Is your name Tommy Reed?

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is your name Tommy Reed?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL nh sir

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

yeah I called but I "felt" beat and I was. that's why I asked. thanks for the replys. he had JJ

Re: TT postflop late in the Stars $320
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never fold this, but I bet the turn because I hate to see this checked through.

[/ QUOTE ]