(114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

SB is a verified donk, pretty much committing himself with that steller call. Anyone like a repush here with my stack or fold and hope that the awesome SB realizes he can't fold on the flop and busts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (4 handed)

SB (t3675)
Hero (t2870)
UTG (t4795)
Button (t2160)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t1800</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t1500, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

I push and try to put myself in position for 1st. Really, really doubt you're dominated. Could go either way though depending on style...

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Tough spot bud. What do you make of UTG's less-than-AI raise? It's certainly shaping up to be a one street pot. I don't know that you get your desired trainwreck sitting out.

If niether will be folding to your PF push, and with UTG taking the lead to the flop, I would rather call here &amp; push the flop behind SB's likely check to the raiser.

t1400 isn't a ton of FE, but it's more than you have PF. Limiting one of these guys to seeing 3 cards helps a tad.

Eh...something to think about.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Man, what a spot [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Just thinking about that PF FE. With donk SB behind, I suppose it's plausible that UTG steps out. But this assumes he makes this type of committing raise (in regards to you, the BB) from this position with a hand that wasn't looking to call pushes from the others.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

I'd assume that with only 1k behind, I have basically zero fold equity pre or post flop. I've never played with UTG before but if I had to guess he had some sort of legitimate raising hand and isn't well versed in pushbot strategy.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Push. Not enough chips to stop and go and you're not folding.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Fold. If you were outchipping either won I push.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. If you were outchipping either won I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? There's no guarantee that a player will be eliminated. SB has 1875 after the call.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold. If you were outchipping either won I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? There's no guarantee that a player will be eliminated. SB has 1875 after the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I though SB was shorter NVM.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

this is a pretty gross spot. i think i'd fold although i'm not at all sure that's right. if you push you're going to wind up playing a 3-way pot a lot of the time where you need to scoop to avoid bubbling. calling might be right and i'd be curious to see what people have to say about it, but i still hate to risk busting here.

if you fold, there are three likely scenarios:

- sb folds flop. i think this is actually pretty likely. then you have a 1k lead on sb and a small lead on button. excellent chance to cash.

- sb busts. obviously awesome.

- sb doubles up. utg is down to 1k and is pc'ed in the bb next hand.

so as long as they don't chop, you're going to be in pretty good shape if you fold. the obvious other side to this argument is that getting your chips in probably as a favorite in a 3-way pot with big pot odds is hard to pass up.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Just a thought here. What are the odds of UTG repushing?

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd assume that with only 1k behind, I have basically zero fold equity pre or post flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and I mistyped in my reply last night (1k vs 1.4k).

But if we are going to get them in, the post FE is in fact a little better than PF.

UTG is the raiser.
SB with, or without a hand, most often checks the flop.
You push your last t1000.

UTG having completely whiffed may very well fold with donk SB left to act behind him. Negligible, but it is there.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just a thought here. What are the odds of UTG repushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

v. high imo.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

this is an easy fold IMO. you are not calling here so treat it as push or fold. If you push it costs UTG only 1070 to win 7130 (because the donk caller will call this bet for an extra 360). So now your JJ has to hold up against 2 opponents which is never good. If UTG scoops, you take 3rd in the sng. If donk caller wins AND you beat UTG you just have a microstack. If donk caller wins and UTG takes second you're gone.

So basically you're JJ MUST beat these two opponents

I don't have poker stove here so I can't do the numbers. But based on that alone this is an obvious fold on the bubble.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Microbet says possibly call and shove a safe flop. I like that idea. (Safe = no A or K).

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Microbet says possibly call and shove a safe flop. I like that idea. (Safe = no A or K).

[/ QUOTE ]

Horrible idea, IMO.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

I don't think it's that bad. It's only 1200 more to call. You're getting 3.3-1 with JJ. You're still alive if you have to fold. If you shove here they're definitely both calling. Even a stop n go would be better than a shove I think. I'm pretty sure calling &gt; shoving and the more I think about it the more I think calling &gt; folding.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's that bad. It's only 1200 more to call. You're getting 3-1 with JJ. You're still alive if you have to fold. If you shove here they're definitely both calling. Even a stop n go would be better than a shove I think. I'm pretty sure calling &gt; shoving and the more I think about it the more I think calling &gt; folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its admirable that you guys are looking for ways to avoid folding good hands on the bubble, but i think you have to here, yet again.

Mack

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Calling looks good and varying up the flop play depending on the SB's action and the flop.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Pretty sure I'd fold this. WTF is with the pf action, are either of these 2 going to be able to get away from their hands post flop?

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

my gut instinct is to fold.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Calling looks good and varying up the flop play depending on the SB's action and the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


really? You arent on AIM.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Calling looks good and varying up the flop play depending on the SB's action and the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mass hysteria is the only explanation I can come up with for people saying they call this here.

Regards Mack

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

Microbet and ChrisV like calling against SOME opponents, but don't mind a fold.

http://lifewise.canoe.ca/FoodDrink/2...pinacolada.jpg

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

[ QUOTE ]
Microbet and ChrisV like calling against SOME opponents, but don't mind a fold.

http://lifewise.canoe.ca/FoodDrink/2...pinacolada.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what this is about, but it makes me smile. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mack

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

i dont fold.

Re: (114) Fun with JJ on the bubble
 

s