*Official* HSP 8/14
 

GOOD LORD!!
Hansen with the one-outer! Huge pot!! DN lost some serious coin on that one!!! Pretty surreal to watch what amounts to several of my mortgages being won in one hand by Gus there. Sick.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

What was it, $300,000 I think?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

how much did gus buyin for, 300 or 400?


o and eli is the biggest douche ever. and i dont care for anon either

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

I'm not sure how long Gus had been at the table, but that could have turned really sick for him. He might have lost his entire $400k buyin in what was probably a couple of hours if that 5 didn't come.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Awful cooler. I wonder if Gabe was right in saying Daniel wouldn't have lost that much money to anyone but Gus. Daniel has to figure that there's no way that much money goes in on anything but 9s full or quads, but against Gus, he could be making a crazy play (or so his image suggests).

Zeidman looked awful on the one hand he played. So weak-tight. Looks like E-Dog is taking his spot at some point next week.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
how much did gus buyin for, 300 or 400?


o and eli is the biggest douche ever. and i dont care for anon either

[/ QUOTE ]

Gus bought in for $400K, but was down to slightly under $300K by the time the pot happened.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

It was sick. If I were DN I would have thrown up right there at the table.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
Awful cooler. I wonder if Gabe was right in saying Daniel wouldn't have lost that much money to anyone but Gus. Daniel has to figure that there's no way that much money goes in on anything but 9s full or quads, but against Gus, he could be making a crazy play (or so his image suggests).

Zeidman looked awful on the one hand he played. So weak-tight. Looks like E-Dog is taking his spot at some point next week.

[/ QUOTE ]

What Gabe meant is that Gus had the most (or 2nd most) amount of money at the table. If Barry had pocket fives, Daniel would've only lost $50,000 or so. Because Gus had $300,000 or so in front of him, that's how much Daniel was going to lose.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]

o and eli is the biggest douche ever. and i dont care for anon either

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand the Eli hate. He seems pretty benign to me.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
What was it, $300,000 I think?

[/ QUOTE ]

$300,000 is about what DN lost that hand, the pot was over $600,000.

Seeing DN suffer a loss like that makes me feel quite content in my little small stakes world of LIMIT HE.

I am curious to see Juanda next week, since I've only really seen him in tournament action. Does anyone know if he regularly runs in the big cash games?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

He is a monster on full tilt. He destroys in the cash games nightly.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Yeah and he never really played them until recently but he absolutely is killing them from what I've seen on full tilt.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

I'm glad Gus won that hand. He had already lost 100k playing loose but nothing terrible. I had seen the preview, last week and was worried he would be on the wrong end of a cooler.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
It was sick. If I were DN I would have thrown up right there at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think making over $500,000 in props makes it hurt less but still ouch.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
It was sick. If I were DN I would have thrown up right there at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer douche

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

okay, I'll be the first idiot to say it:

easy laydown with the 4th nuts.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
okay, I'll be the first idiot to say it:

easy laydown with the 4th nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you are joking, but against anyone else (with similar stack sizes) I think Daniel makes this laydown pretty easily. If Antonio did this, Daniel's cards would be insta-mucked. Is Gus really that much of a donkey to play 95, 85, 75, 65 this way? Probably, which is what made Daniel call. I can't imagine this being a bluff ever - not with how the turn action went. Still, what is 95 and 85 value-betting against here - AA? A one-card straight? I don't know how Hansen plays in cash games but if he plays even relatively decent, Negreanu could've thought about it for a long time and folded - I think he just 'had to see' in this instance.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
okay, I'll be the first idiot to say it:

easy laydown with the 4th nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you are joking, but against anyone else (with similar stack sizes) I think Daniel makes this laydown pretty easily. If Antonio did this, Daniel's cards would be insta-mucked. Is Gus really that much of a donkey to play 95, 85, 75, 65 this way? Probably, which is what made Daniel call. I can't imagine this being a bluff ever - not with how the turn action went. Still, what is 95 and 85 value-betting against here - AA? A one-card straight? I don't know how Hansen plays in cash games but if he plays even relatively decent, Negreanu could've thought about it for a long time and folded - I think he just 'had to see' in this instance.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm only sorta joking...you reasoned it out pretty well..."had to see" for $176,000? Nah. I'm folding. No way Gus is raising anything other than a hand that can beat Daniel here. 85,57...he calls the river, he doesn't raise with it.

But then, I'm breaking even at $1/$2 NL, so WTF do I know?

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
Awful cooler. I wonder if Gabe was right in saying Daniel wouldn't have lost that much money to anyone but Gus. Daniel has to figure that there's no way that much money goes in on anything but 9s full or quads, but against Gus, he could be making a crazy play (or so his image suggests).

Zeidman looked awful on the one hand he played. So weak-tight. Looks like E-Dog is taking his spot at some point next week.

[/ QUOTE ]


I just watched the hand again. On the river after Gus checks, Daniel bet 65k into a pot of approx 160k, Gus calls and raises 167k. If you have sixes full with a rainbow board of 5-5-6-8-9 what are the chances of your hand being good at that point? Is Gus raising 167k with 5-9 5-8 5-6 or maybe even 7-10, the nut straight? The answer I come up with is no, he will just call with any of those hands. Daniel must have thought there's a chance that this is a stone cold bluff.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

here's DN thoughts on the hand:


[ QUOTE ]
A surprise player jumped into the game and sat to my right with $300,000 in front of him. No one even knew he was even in town, but Gus Hansen sat to my immediate right.

By that point I had about $600,000 in front of me. Gus made it $2100 to go and I decided to put in a VERY tricky re-raise to $5000 with 66- Gus called.

The flop came 9-6-5 rainbow and I was hoping to win a big one against Gus. He checked the flop to me and I bet $8000. Gus check-raised me $18,000 more and I hesitated, trying to represent an over pair and finally called.

The turn card came a 5 which gave me a full house. This time Gus bet $24,000 and it was time to do a little Hollywood. I wanted to convince Gus that I had a hand like QQ and I think it worked. I just called.

The river came an 8 putting a four card straight on the board. Now Gus checked so it was time for me to figure out how much he was willing to call. I bet $65,000.

Gus said... all in! He raised me another $167,000. Are you serious? If he had 99 or 55, would he REALLY check the river after putting me on an over pair? I called, and Gus turned over 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

I thought it was interesting DN went through the hands that beat him, rather than trying to work out what GH could have that he beat. DN lost 500BB's on that hand. I have hardly ever played that deep, but if I did, I'd figure you have to lay down some big hands.

Zeebo's theorm works even in the biggest games.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was interesting DN went through the hands that beat him, rather than trying to work out what GH could have that he beat. DN lost 500BB's on that hand. I have hardly ever played that deep, but if I did, I'd figure you have to lay down some big hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting thought. Maybe he didn't go over the hands he could beat because there pretty much were none, unless Gus was overplaying a weak full house.


[ QUOTE ]
Zeebo's theorm works even in the biggest games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain please.

On another note, Gus' play prior to the big hand seemed okay, but he just kept getting drawn out on. For a while there it seemed like he couldn't win a hand.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

I kinda got the vibe he for sure thought he had him beat by his whole..alerting Doyle and such to check out the big pot...ie the one he was going to win.
In the back of his mind he may have been worried about 99/55, and thus was voicing his worries in case he got bitch slapped by the deck but I think he was conifdent he had Gus beat.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
I kinda got the vibe he for sure thought he had him beat by his whole..alerting Doyle and such to check out the big pot...ie the one he was going to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be right, but I got the impression that he was trying to politely tell Doyle and Eli to be quiet, while he made a tough decision.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
okay, I'll be the first idiot to say it:

easy laydown with the 4th nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you are joking, but against anyone else (with similar stack sizes) I think Daniel makes this laydown pretty easily. If Antonio did this, Daniel's cards would be insta-mucked. Is Gus really that much of a donkey to play 95, 85, 75, 65 this way? Probably, which is what made Daniel call. I can't imagine this being a bluff ever - not with how the turn action went. Still, what is 95 and 85 value-betting against here - AA? A one-card straight? I don't know how Hansen plays in cash games but if he plays even relatively decent, Negreanu could've thought about it for a long time and folded - I think he just 'had to see' in this instance.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm only sorta joking...you reasoned it out pretty well..."had to see" for $176,000? Nah. I'm folding. No way Gus is raising anything other than a hand that can beat Daniel here. 85,57...he calls the river, he doesn't raise with it.

But then, I'm breaking even at $1/$2 NL, so WTF do I know?

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

if you were in DN's spot, would you assume that Gus would C/R the river with 99 or 55 or 88? What hands would Gus have to put Daniel on to assume that would work?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

this is obvious but I love that they now added the bet amounts and actions under the cards.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Where can i see this hand on video?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where can i see this hand on video?

[/ QUOTE ]

television

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Zeebo's theorm: Nobody EVER folds a boat.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
okay, I'll be the first idiot to say it:

easy laydown with the 4th nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct, sir. It is an easy fold. They are playing 500bb deep, and Daniel can't beat anything on the river except a bluff.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Great episode.

I have no problem with Eli. Don't understand why people tag on him so much here. Antonio, on the other hand, I am rooting for a big ass bust like last season.

Gus's check on the river was uber impressive. Helluva hand.

Damn, I love this show. Already looking forward to next season, and this one isn't even over yet.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

To say it's an "easy fold" is either some ridiculously tight-weak poker, or ego-driven results-based thinking.

Daniel was trying to represent an overpair - everything he did in the hand was consistent with that. If he did think that he (Daniel) successfully planted the idea in Hansen's mind, then he would expect Hansen to be very aggressive with a wide range of hands. If he has nothing, he might be able to scare off Daniel's overpair on the kind of board that hits the sort of hands Gus will play. If he has a strong, but second best hand like 59, then he'll try to get value against an overpair.

Either way, the way Daniel acted throughout the hand was designed to encourage action - and so when he actually gets action, he's not going to take it as a conclusive sign that he's beat. Both of them know Gus' image, and Daniel could've made Gus think that Daniel thought he was calling off a bluff raise and bet on the turn with a medium strength hand like an overpair. And if Daniel thinks that's what Gus is thinking, then Daniel's actions are a natural conclusion to that, based on what Daniel thinks Gus is thinking.

You say Gus couldn't have played that way without a hand that beat Daniel, but that's nonsense. Gus certainly doesn't come from that weak-tight camp, so you can't base Daniel's analysis of his action based on that. Gus could've had a range of hands there that Daniel beat, and Daniel is getting like 2:1 on it. Still, it's not like Daniel is pot-committed at that point, so a bluff is still a viable option.

It's easy to tell yourself you'd have made the right decision when you have all the information, but if they didn't show Gus' cards, are you really saying "easy fold" before showdown?

I bet if Gus had 59 no one would be criticizing Daniel's decisions - yet they would be the exact same decisions based on the same information.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
okay, I'll be the first idiot to say it:

easy laydown with the 4th nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you are joking, but against anyone else (with similar stack sizes) I think Daniel makes this laydown pretty easily. If Antonio did this, Daniel's cards would be insta-mucked. Is Gus really that much of a donkey to play 95, 85, 75, 65 this way? Probably, which is what made Daniel call. I can't imagine this being a bluff ever - not with how the turn action went. Still, what is 95 and 85 value-betting against here - AA? A one-card straight? I don't know how Hansen plays in cash games but if he plays even relatively decent, Negreanu could've thought about it for a long time and folded - I think he just 'had to see' in this instance.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm only sorta joking...you reasoned it out pretty well..."had to see" for $176,000? Nah. I'm folding. No way Gus is raising anything other than a hand that can beat Daniel here. 85,57...he calls the river, he doesn't raise with it.

But then, I'm breaking even at $1/$2 NL, so WTF do I know?

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

if you were in DN's spot, would you assume that Gus would C/R the river with 99 or 55 or 88? What hands would Gus have to put Daniel on to assume that would work?

[/ QUOTE ]

well see, I saw Gus's hole cards on that lil camera they put in the table, so I knew it was an easy laydown. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

I mentioned this in another thread.... but I just wanted to reiterate it here:

Dear HSP Producers, please uninvite Zeidman and Fillipi for next season. It's kind of fun watching Zeidman play like a huge p**sy and lose money but I think you could find someone who does it in a more entertaining fashion.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
GOOD LORD!!
Hansen with the one-outer! Huge pot!! DN lost some serious coin on that one!!! Pretty surreal to watch what amounts to several of my mortgages being won in one hand by Gus there. Sick.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry about the sidebar here, but how much is Gus supposed to tip the dealer? A dime? 5 dimes?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Is anyone else getting sick of hearing Antonio's “wheeeeeeeeee!!” all the time?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

easy fold? please. what is gus putting daniel on? what is daniel putting gus on? remember daniel 3 bet preflop. remember daniel did not raise the turn. why would gus check the river if he puts daniel on an overpair?

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Excellent analysis, SenorBeef. Daniel's decision was a lot more complicated because of who he was up against and what hands Daniel was representing. Just a sick hand that was well played by both players.

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

Well, two little things, has Eli ever met a flush draw he didn't Love? DId anyone notice the grinder sitting beside Annon for a hand or two (in Barry's seat I believe) I was wondering if it was bad editing because Barry was back in his seat later in the episode, or maybe he sat in for Barry during a bathroom break, etc etc??

Re: *Official* HSP 8/14
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, two little things, has Eli ever met a flush draw he didn't Love? DId anyone notice the grinder sitting beside Annon for a hand or two (in Barry's seat I believe) I was wondering if it was bad editing because Barry was back in his seat later in the episode, or maybe he sat in for Barry during a bathroom break, etc etc??

[/ QUOTE ]

he was sitting in Barry's chair for a closer view/to talk to the guys - he wasn't playing. i was there for about 4 hours of taping this day, and it was kinda cool how the producers were encouraging the different players who were railing to go and socialize with the table. it just makes for a little more interest to see random players crusining around in the background.