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- Micro Stakes Limit (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37)

- - I felt dirty (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=18334)

SB is 19/12/2.72 WTS 34 W$S 48(and stuck about 50 bets over 1300 hands today).
MP2 is 42/9/.68 WTS 32 W$S 36 over 76 hands.

Villian is a loose raiser against limpers from his sb. He's shown down KJs, KQ, AJo+, JJ+ and his range is likely wider.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Villian raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Villian bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, Villian calls.

I raise with the gutshot and backdoor flush draw. If Villian is betting unimproved overcards and nobody caught a piece, I'll take the pot on the turn with a bet. If Villian has a hand, or catches on the turn, he'll let me know. MP2's calling two cold could be anything with this guy...

Turn: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villian bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

The turn donk tells me that Villian likes his hand, even on this coordinated board. I narrow his range to JJ or better, AKs, or AK. I briefly consider rasiing for the free showdown, but MP2 isn't going anywhere and I don't know what he's playing. He would play this way with a straight or flush draw, small two pair, or an eight.

River: (10 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villian bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, Villian calls.

Villian bets without pause, and I have to raise. MP2 will call 2 cold with 2 pair or better, and Villian isn't folding for one more bet.

Thoughts?

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 14 BB, between Villian and Hero.

Re: I felt dirty

the range you gave isnt that loose against limpers at 2/4 but if it is much wider, then we can call it loose. i dont like defending here with T9s because im going to be acting right after the aggressor and that sucks with the type of hand you have.

i fold the flop, your outs are dirty in a 4 handed pot.

Re: I felt dirty

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is a loose raiser against limpers from his sb. He's shown down KJs, KQ, AJo+, JJ+ and his range is likely wider.

[/ QUOTE ]

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The turn donk tells me that Villian likes his hand, even on this coordinated board. I narrow his range to JJ or better, AKs, or AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your range is too small, but you played your hand well.

Re: I felt dirty

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villian is a loose raiser against limpers from his sb. He's shown down KJs, KQ, AJo+, JJ+ and his range is likely wider.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn donk tells me that Villian likes his hand, even on this coordinated board. I narrow his range to JJ or better, AKs, or AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your range is too small, but you played your hand well.

[/ QUOTE ]

ME NO LIKE PREFLOP CALL.

Re: I felt dirty

[ QUOTE ]
ME NO LIKE PREFLOP CALL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's marginal, but I don't think it's bad. Just don't suck postflop and you'll be okay.

Re: I felt dirty

From SSHE page 83

Big Blind against a raise: "play same hands that you would play from late position for one bet, except remove the weak offsuit hands..."

Re: I felt dirty

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villian is a loose raiser against limpers from his sb. He's shown down KJs, KQ, AJo+, JJ+ and his range is likely wider.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn donk tells me that Villian likes his hand, even on this coordinated board. I narrow his range to JJ or better, AKs, or AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your range is too small, but you played your hand well.

[/ QUOTE ]

ME NO LIKE PREFLOP CALL.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying he should 3bet (for value?) or fold? both seem pretty insane here.

Re: I felt dirty

why not just call on flop? You're getting 9-1 on ur gutshot+overcards and your runner draw. It's hard to count on the villain folding on the turn, even if you're sure he has no pair.

Re: I felt dirty

[ QUOTE ]
why not just call on flop? You're getting 9-1 on ur gutshot+overcards and your runner draw. It's hard to count on the villain folding on the turn, even if you're sure he has no pair.

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My standard play would be to call and see what develops. I had been playing with Villian all day however and had not seen him continue on the turn without a made hand or getting proper odds to a draw.

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am of my flop play there, read on Villian not withstanding. With a weak drawing hand, I'm not sure I should be trying to chase anyone out and clear up my overcards, even if I don't consider the pot to be small and feel I have control of Villian.

Thanks for all the feedback!

Re: I felt dirty

You must be looking at a different hand to me Fuji.

I like it every step of the way.

NH.

Re: I felt dirty

I don't think I'd raise that flop myself, other than that I'd play it the same.

Re: I felt dirty

Why are we raising the flop?

Re: I felt dirty

I dont particularly like the preflop raise. I also dont like the flop raise either. You hand has dirty outs and can have bad reverse implied odds.

Re: I felt dirty

I think the preflop call is fine, I'm surprised anyone is even debating that.

I'd like a bit less of a coordinated board before I try this flop play, though. I don't think it's a bad play, I just think there's too much there for folks who limp with crap. Make that 3h a black 2 and it gets closer.

Re: I felt dirty

Very very nice hand. FWIW I love the flop raise.

Re: I felt dirty

[ QUOTE ]
Why are we raising the flop?

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We're hoping to buy some more outs by getting a hands like Q9 and JT to fold as well as hoping to buy some more safe overcards by making hands such as Q7 fold. We also want to eliminate hands with the straight redraws if we a pair on the turn, which are the same hands as above plus junk hands like T2 and 95.

Re: I felt dirty

Hand looks good... never feel bad about catching runner runner.
The one problem that i see is on the turn, although you didnt do it... you said that you considered raising for a free showdown. but you put your opponent on a strong hand.... why do this, if you catch your draw you can raise on the end if you miss just throw it away for one bet not two. There is no point in showing down ten high if you miss your hand.
Duk

Re: I felt dirty

I like it, in that position the flop raise has a good chance of improving your odds of winning the hand, so I'd probably raise there as well.

Re: I felt dirty

*grunch*

vnh!

i like the flop alot

Re: I felt dirty

Dang when I first started reading this I thought I found the guy that took me for a big pot last night. I raised UTG with JJ and the guy to my left (maniac all night) made it three bets. 3 players cold called. The flop was A78 rainbow. I bet hoping the maniac would raise and drive out anyone with a weak A. He raised but everyone called. So I am pretty sure I am in trouble, until a J comes on the turn giving me a set. I bet again he raises 2 callers, I reraise and he caps, one caller. A blank comes on the river. We cap the river after losing the other caller and he shows T9o for a straight. Final pot was 38BBs.

Sorry I know I'm just venting a bad beat, but when I first loaded up a hand saying you were playing T9 and you felt dirty it brought back that bad memory.

The villian I was against should have felt dirty. You have no reason to feel dirty. You played this well. I probably would have just called on the flop, but there is a decent chance he is on unimproved cards that would allow you to catch a free card on the turn if you want it. In general I would have taken that free card, but in this case you had a specific read saying he would lay down an unimproved hand so betting would have been fine.

Re: I felt dirty

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Very very nice hand. FWIW I love the flop raise.

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I think I creamed my pants seeing it

Re: I felt dirty

I don't think that villian is a loose raiser in this situation. I would raise all of those hands myself and while I am not great, loose I am certainly not.

With that being said I don't disagree with the PF call. You have a hand that plays well in a big pot and you are already in for 1 BB. But I would go in with the mindset that you are only playing 2 pair, flush or straight draws on the flop since w/ vilians range a pair of 9's or T's is unlikely to hold up.

I don't like the flop raise, your hand is not nearly strong enough and if you do hit your hand you will very likely win the pot so why force out players? Turn and river are fine.