WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

Main villian in this hand arrived 30 minutes late. He has been at the table for 10 minutes so I really have no read on him, other than he hasn't really done anything crazy in 10 hands.

I have about 7500 chips to start the hand. I doubt he has any read on me either.

Level 1, 25/50 blinds.

He limps in the hijack, having me covered. Button, a tight solid player, limps. SB completes. I look down at black kings and raise to 300. Only villian calls.

Flop is A 9 7r. This seems like a WA/WB situation, although there is some straight draws out there. I decide to check here and play conservatively. He bets 500, I call.

Turn is a 6. I check, he checks.

River is a 5. I am really lost now with a 1750 pot. I check again, basically signifying I have a big pair lower than AA and hate the board. He throws out 1500. Call or Fold?

Looking for advice on previous streets as well.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

I can't think of a hand your ahead of that would bet that river. If he was betting some sort of straight draw on the flop he got there. Can't put him on pairs like 10-QQ as he most likely opens with those from the cutoff and PP (55-99) have you beat. Seems like a fold to me.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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I can't think of a hand your ahead of that would bet that river. If he was betting some sort of straight draw on the flop he got there. Can't put him on pairs like 10-QQ as he most likely opens with those from the cutoff and PP (55-99) have you beat. Seems like a fold to me.

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Well, obviously it's either a bluff or the straight/set.

I think that's established.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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Level 1, 25/50 blinds.

He limps in the hijack, having me covered. Button, a tight solid player, limps. SB completes. I look down at black kings and raise to 300. Only villian calls.

Flop is A 9 7r. This seems like a WA/WB situation, although there is some straight draws out there. I decide to check here and play conservatively. He bets 500, I call.


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I stopped reading here. If you had bet the flop, he would have folded his 88 and you wouldn't have this situation.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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Level 1, 25/50 blinds.

He limps in the hijack, having me covered. Button, a tight solid player, limps. SB completes. I look down at black kings and raise to 300. Only villian calls.

Flop is A 9 7r. This seems like a WA/WB situation, although there is some straight draws out there. I decide to check here and play conservatively. He bets 500, I call.


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I stopped reading here. If you had bet the flop, he would have folded his 88 and you wouldn't have this situation.

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Ok buddy;

1) He didn't have 88.

2) I am betting to protect against hands that are way behind. It might be more +EV to check here and induce some bluffs. I am willing to discuss this and the river decision.

You don't always need to bet to take a pot down if there are other ways to play it.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

I C/C this flop all day.

Just had an idea.

How about a turn blocking bet? Maybe I'm being results oriented, but what about half-potting it or so on the turn and then checking the river?

I think you'll get calls from worse hands a lot because raising from the BB then c/c/lead isn't exactly screaming AX. Does this let Villain 3-bet us with air too often though?

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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Level 1, 25/50 blinds.

He limps in the hijack, having me covered. Button, a tight solid player, limps. SB completes. I look down at black kings and raise to 300. Only villian calls.

Flop is A 9 7r. This seems like a WA/WB situation, although there is some straight draws out there. I decide to check here and play conservatively. He bets 500, I call.


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I stopped reading here. If you had bet the flop, he would have folded his 88 and you wouldn't have this situation.

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How come any time anyone starts a thread where he's WA/WB, people say "bet so that he folds the hands you beat"?

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

I think this is a fold on the river. That bet's big and looks like a value bet.

Also, I'm not convinced that this isn't an A... I think lots of people play an A this way.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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Level 1, 25/50 blinds.

He limps in the hijack, having me covered. Button, a tight solid player, limps. SB completes. I look down at black kings and raise to 300. Only villian calls.

Flop is A 9 7r. This seems like a WA/WB situation, although there is some straight draws out there. I decide to check here and play conservatively. He bets 500, I call.


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I stopped reading here. If you had bet the flop, he would have folded his 88 and you wouldn't have this situation.

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How come any time anyone starts a thread where he's WA/WB, people say "bet so that he folds the hands you beat"?

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Because people are dumb and not good at poker.

Hi, Evenkeal.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

i dont think that just because it's WA/WB we should automatically just check/call. What other hands are we check calling this flop? As the OP says, it turns our hand face up, and makes it very hard for us to play the hand well. I say we go ahead and let him play perfect, and take the pot down on the flop.

We have very little to gain by extending this hand out onto further streets.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

What's our raising range out of the BB with this many limpers preflop? I'm pretty sure I'm check/calling with that entire range here.

Edit: not that he knows that

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

i think i'm betting my entire range, which is something like 22-66(50%),77+,AJ+

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

i don't really like the hand at all.

on the flop, bet. if he raises or calls, big deal, move on to the next hand. the thing about being WA/WB here is that you're losing a lot more chips when WB than you will win when WA. its just too difficult to play a hand like this when you're deep OOP.

having c/c the flop, what was your intention when you checked the turn? i usually check/fold here. just wondering what your plans were.

on the river, bet 600. he'll freeze up and call w/ a lot of hands that you are both ahead and behind.

you made this hand way too difficult

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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What's our raising range out of the BB with this many limpers preflop? I'm pretty sure I'm check/calling with that entire range here.

Edit: not that he knows that

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really? i'm betting my entire range

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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i think i'm betting my entire range, which is something like 22-66(50%),77+,AJ+

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Jesus my range is tighter. I'm JJ+/AK.

OOP and stuff.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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i think i'm betting my entire range, which is something like 22-66(50%),77+,AJ+

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Jesus my range is tighter. I'm JJ+/AK.

OOP and stuff.

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exactly, we're OOP. so why make this hand so complicated by c/c the flop and being completely lost on the turn?

also, my range is probably something like JJ-AA/AQ-AK/76s and a few other random suited connectors

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

we're reallly deep, and most of the limpers fold to the raise, and the one that doesnt will fold to the flop 3/4pot-bet. Think you can open up quite a bit.


edit: i might take AJ out of my range here. but definitely lots of pairs and AQ+

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

dmk,
I think you're wrong here. With your preflop range, basically the only hand that's strong enough to be value betting this deep in this spot is AA, and the only hands weak enough to bluff are the suited connectors you throw in for shania. Because there are way more bluffs than value bets in that range, just betting them would be very exploitable. Mixing in some blalue bets with JJ-KK doesn't really solve the problem--your range is still heavily concentrated in hands that can't stand a raise.

Exit,
I don't get preflop deep stacked. I'm gonna have to learn if I ever wanna move to cash/play some 10k events.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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I think this is a fold on the river. That bet's big and looks like a value bet.

Also, I'm not convinced that this isn't an A... I think lots of people play an A this way.

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I agree. This definitely looks like an ace with a decent kicker, maybe Ax suited that hit two pair.

I think the river is a routine fold.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

I think it is a mistake to assume a monster or nuts type situation. He should be value betting any A here, but given that he knows we can't beat top pair, we should consider calling. I think this is still a fold, but it is close

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

I hate check/calling the flop and then checking the turn. As everyone previously stated, it turns our hand face up to villian (if he's any good).

We check/called the flop, so there's our bet against hands we beat. Now in order to stave off a big bet on the river like this, I think we want to make a blocking bet on the turn. If villian calls our small blocking bet and bets the river, we can fold confidently. Some % of the time, villian will call with hands we beat and then will check down the river with us. But villian will then usually only bet with hands that beat us on the river.

So overall, we get info and lose less $$ to hands that beat us.

As played, I fold the river. We have middle pair with a ton of chips compared to the blinds, and 1500 is a significant portion of our stack to bleed off here not knowing where we are. I'm pretty sure villian called with some kind of AXs. If villian bluffs us out here, well, bully for him.

Re: WSOP ME hand #3 - My cards are basically face up on \"scary\" board
 

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How come any time anyone starts a thread where he's WA/WB, people say "bet so that he folds the hands you beat"?

[/ QUOTE ]Because if he is holding a hand like 88, by checking you are allowing him the option to take a free card and make money if he hits and lose no money if he doesn't. On top of that, a check/call means you know no idea where you stand in the hand. If you bet out you get a lot more information than by check calling, which will allow you to lose less chips overall if you are behind in the hand. True you won't get any more chips if you're ahead, but how are you going to get more chips if you're ahead anyway unless villan makes a really lame bluff?