Simple AQ hand
 

No reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($55.90)
Hero ($114)
SB ($87.50)
BB ($81.07)
UTG ($130.63)
MP ($97.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($11.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $7</font>, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($25.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8.

River: ($41.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero...

Comments welcome on all streets.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Readless, I raise this flop 100% of the time. It's a drawless board, and there's a good chance your opponent is on a lower queen, so I raise this flop for value. The only reasonable hand you're beat by is a set, and it's pretty hard to put your opponent on that.


As played, I check the river.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Looks fine, value bet the river for sure.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

value bet river.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Looks fine, value bet the river for sure.

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Yeah. But it looks like he has a 7 or small PP, so I'd only bet about 12-15.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

I think the drawless board dictates a call rather than a raise..

I think there is value in a small bet, say $20.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Who raised?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Flop is fine as you're WA/WB, although if he had bet only a little less (eg $5) I would have raised to $15 or so to ensure I get value for the hand.

Turn is fine given the overcard and his apparent weakness, I'd try to squeeze another $15 or so out of him on the river as it looks like he has a worse queen or possibly a mid pair, and he can't really be going for a c/r with a big hand after your passive line.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Hmm, you guys really betting that small on the river? I rarely ever bet less than half the pot. You dont think he will cough up another $5?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

I rarely do either, but he looks super weak and scared... nothing wrong with betting $20 though.

(Oh great, now I'm an addict. Hope my wife never sees this, she doesn't need the confirmation [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Looks fine, value bet the river for sure.

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Yeah. But it looks like he has a 7 or small PP, so I'd only bet about 12-15.

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I don't see the logic of this conclusion. Why do we bet less if we think he has a 7? To encourage a call?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Check behind. You don't want to reopen the betting because you've got one pair. I think that the chances of beating his A high or pocket jacks with your one pair is equaled by the possibility that he's got a weak K (that he'll call with and beat you) or hidden monster (that he's looking to CR).

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

No way, gotta bet here. I also like to raise these flops, though I can live with either way if UTG tends to multi-bluff or over values TPWK.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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No way, gotta bet here. I also like to raise these flops, though I can live with either way if UTG tends to multi-bluff or over values TPWK.

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he's betting real light here, so he'll call light, i bet 15$ on river.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

A 41BB pot with 2nd pair top picker is big enough - check behind.

I have to admit, it looks like 99-JJ or a weaker Q, but unless you have a read on villian calling down with crap, a value bet is pretty thin here.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

River is a definite value bet, especially as you look so weak throughout the hand.

Flop/turn are fine.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Jam, how much are you betting here?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Looks fine, value bet the river for sure.

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Yeah. But it looks like he has a 7 or small PP, so I'd only bet about 12-15.

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You think a single 7 double barrels this? I'm not so sure. I bet this river about $20 and expect a fold, or lose my stomach and check behind to see QJs.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Jam, how much are you betting here?

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I gues it depends just how bad he is. Probably just over half pot or just under pot.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Looks fine, value bet the river for sure.

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Yeah. But it looks like he has a 7 or small PP, so I'd only bet about 12-15.

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I don't see the logic of this conclusion. Why do we bet less if we think he has a 7? To encourage a call?

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People tend to not call huge bets with marginal hands. 15-20 is probably the right amount, 12 seems a bit small.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

With two overs, I'm not sure if 99-JJ will call even a small value bet. If he has a weak king, he calls. If he has a monster, we've just re-opened the betting and he's going to raise. I'm not sure the small value bet is worth re-opening in this spot, but I'm as nitty as they come.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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With two overs, I'm not sure if 99-JJ will call even a small value bet. If he has a weak king, he calls. If he has a monster, we've just re-opened the betting and he's going to raise. I'm not sure the small value bet is worth re-opening in this spot, but I'm as nitty as they come.

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wow, 99-JJ will definitely call. Not valuebetting here is a big leak.Why do you care about reopening the betting, you're not going to get bluff raised here.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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I'm not sure the small value bet is worth re-opening in this spot

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If you can't find a value bet here, or at least a burning desire to valuebet this river, you have a big leak. BIG. This is where much of the profit comes from in NLHE. River VBs like this.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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With two overs, I'm not sure if 99-JJ will call even a small value bet. If he has a weak king, he calls. If he has a monster, we've just re-opened the betting and he's going to raise. I'm not sure the small value bet is worth re-opening in this spot, but I'm as nitty as they come.

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wow, 99-JJ will definitely call. Not valuebetting here is a big leak.Why do you care about reopening the betting, you're not going to get bluff raised here.

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Plus this is a pretty weirdly played weak king. Why does he lead into the pf raiser with air, then bet only 1/3 pot when he actually hits his hand?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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I'm not sure the small value bet is worth re-opening in this spot

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If you can't find a value bet here, or at least a burning desire to valuebet this river, you have a big leak. BIG. This is where much of the profit comes from in NLHE. River VBs like this.

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At first I thought $15 was about right. But then I thought AJ had some hidden meaning to the post. I'm reading into it too much. Villain is weak.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Plus this is a pretty weirdly played weak king. Why does he lead into the pf raiser with air, then bet only 1/3 pot when he actually hits his hand?

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Opposite man?!

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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A 41BB pot with 2nd pair top picker is big enough - check behind.



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terrible thought process. Bet for sure here.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Eh, depends on villain, but with no reads, I like the call on the flop. Raising the flop isn't really going to do much for you. If he calls, he still could have a set. If he raises, do you fold? Plus raising the flop will prob chase away Q/x hands, which you want to be giving you more action on the turn. IMO, a raise will only scare away hands you beat.

I like the turn call, because its a small BS bet, and he is probably scared of the King also. River.. I'm kind of torn on this one. He is probably still calling a river bet with Q/x because your bet probably looks at a bluff, but at the same time betting will give him a chance to raise you, which you can't call.

I personally probably bet this river for 1/2 the pot or so, hoping to get called by Q/x. If raised big, I will curse, think for 10 seconds, and probably fold.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

It looks like the villian has a pocket pair (JJ, TT) that didn't set. I check because of the king on the turn.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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I'm not sure the small value bet is worth re-opening in this spot

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If you can't find a value bet here, or at least a burning desire to valuebet this river, you have a big leak. BIG. This is where much of the profit comes from in NLHE. River VBs like this.

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I keep hearing this. "Value betting is the most important part of NL poker,etc" I'm sure that holds true, cuz uhh... value = money right? Anyway, if would be cool if someone started a post about what "value betting" actually is and why it is so important to your winrate at SSNL.

Knowing when to value bet and when to excersise pot control = key to poker ?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

I'm wondering about this:

Flop call = good. Let's him overextend himself with worse hands.

Turn call = ???. OK, he's went pretty far with a 7 or TT or whatever. Maybe a raise here and lets gets some more value from QJ or QT (or KQ, which was my flop idea, until the turn K came)

Thoughts?

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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Plus this is a pretty weirdly played weak king. Why does he lead into the pf raiser with air, then bet only 1/3 pot when he actually hits his hand?

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Because before, villian was trying to push you off the hand but now has something. Its a really weird phenomenon. They understand they have a bluff, so they play it fast, like a bluff. Then they understand they have a weak made hand, so the slow down and play it like a weak made hand, ignoring the action and what their lines and bets represent.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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I'm wondering about this:

Flop call = good. Let's him overextend himself with worse hands.

Turn call = ???. OK, he's went pretty far with a 7 or TT or whatever. Maybe a raise here and lets gets some more value from QJ or QT (or KQ, which was my flop idea, until the turn K came)

Thoughts?

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Haven't played NL $100 in a little while, but at the NL $25 type games, I find a small BS bet in that situation to mean villian has a weak hand/air or he has a huge hand. In both cases, CALL is the correct move. Raising will cause him to fold his bluff/weak hand, and raising will [censored] you over and not let you draw out on the river if you need to.

Now, villian checks river... very high chance he has a weak queen here, and is no longer happy about his hand. A big hand would bet out here IMO. Therefore, a value bet on the river seems right.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

SSNL is all about value betting. If you check behind on this river your game is simply bad. You MUST value bet here. There is no such thing as a "big enough pot" with a certain hand. Sometimes the situation calls for a small pot and other times the situation calls for a big pot. In this situation you are ahead 95% of the time and have the opportunity to put more money in the pot. Failing to do so is a large error.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

pop the river $20-25, he'll call with a ton of hands you beat. even if he doesn't call you build image

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

With no reads, if I call the flop, I'm raising the turn. I think TPTK in postion on a dry board deserves a little more than call, call, check. I dont understand the weak play recomended. People do bet and call down with worse than TPTK guys...

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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With no reads, if I call the flop, I'm raising the turn. I think TPTK in postion on a dry board deserves a little more than call, call, check.

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The problem is the turn was a king and raising the turn overrepresents your hand and makes it very difficult to extract value out of weaker hands (QTo, 99, etc.). He's telegraphed by his 1/3-pot turn bet that he has one of these weak hands and we want to get some more value out of it. If we had air here, it would be a good time to raise. With this hand, calling and value betting (or value raising if he bet $8 again) on the river looks like the better option.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

Looks ok to me.

Check the river. You're probably ahead, but if the K on the turn didn't help villain, then it scared him. Just check and see if your read on the flop and turn were right.

I'm not fond of raising on the flop. He's betting a little less on the flop than I'd have cb'ed, but if I'm ahead, then he's not putting much more in the pot, and if I'm behind, then I don't want to put more in the pot.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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With no reads, if I call the flop, I'm raising the turn. I think TPTK in postion on a dry board deserves a little more than call, call, check. I dont understand the weak play recomended. People do bet and call down with worse than TPTK guys...

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It's not TPTK anymore, now it's second pair. The only thing we beat that he fires again on the turn is a lower Q or a middle pocket pair and I really don't think a Q or a low pair bets the turn.

Typically I agree that a value bet on the river is a good money-making play, but this guy bet twice at us after we raised PF. I don't think he's calling a river bet unless he has us beat or happens to have QJ, so I don't see the value in betting this particular hand. We raised PF, there's a K and a Q out there, yet he bet twice post. That scares me.

Re: Simple AQ hand
 

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SSNL is all about value betting. If you check behind on this river your game is simply bad. You MUST value bet here. There is no such thing as a "big enough pot" with a certain hand. Sometimes the situation calls for a small pot and other times the situation calls for a big pot. In this situation you are ahead 95% of the time and have the opportunity to put more money in the pot. Failing to do so is a large error.

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end of thread.