400nl, set vs turn push
 

I have been clashing with this villian on several tables, where I have been playing at about 18/14 this session. He had made some moves in small pots on the flop, but hadn't done anything absolutely crazy. Do you call this turn shove?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero ($624.99)
UTG ($373)
Button ($71.50)
SB ($568.16)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $10</font>, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($24) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $54</font>, SB calls $39.

Turn: ($132) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $96</font>, SB calls $502.16 (All-In), Hero??

At the time, I thought his most likely holding was a straight. I did not think that he would have taken this line with JJ or 77, but I thought that QQ and QJ were also possible. Agree/disagree?

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

fold. This bet screams I have the nuts now give me your stack.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

Fold.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

call, you have a set

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

looks like JT

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

the nuts here is K10??? you think he has the nuts ---- K10?
granted he was double gutted on the flop with K10 but hes not calling that raise on the flop..... he may have top 2...... even Q10, but i call here.... set is way ahead of anyhting but a straight, and putting him on a straight here is generally not the right way to go

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
looks like JT

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

What?

Looks like you're killed, dude. If this guy's more donkish, sure. But he's betting like he not only doesn't care what you have, but he wants you to think he's got garbage.

I don't see a guy like this with AA doing this ever.

Or JT.

- C -

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
looks like JT

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

What?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have JT. you're heads up with a guy that just called your PF raise. you think he's making a move on you by raising the flop. that turn card is perfect to check-raise all in with. i may be ahead with what was top pair on the flop, and if not i have as many as 13 outs to improve.

the line looks right for QT as well.

in an aggro short-handed game, i'd suspect JT or QT more often than a made straight.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
the nuts here is K10??? you think he has the nuts ---- K10?
granted he was double gutted on the flop with K10 but hes not calling that raise on the flop..... he may have top 2...... even Q10, but i call here.... set is way ahead of anyhting but a straight, and putting him on a straight here is generally not the right way to go

[/ QUOTE ]

He will and he should call that flop all day with KT.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

If this is the first time I've seen this move I think a few seconds and fold. Since you've got him on several tables if he's going to get out of line it won't take long for you to pick up on this. Then you can pick a spot to knock him off.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
call, you have a set

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Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

Call. You've already got history with villain, and this board is begging to be semibluffed. Not to mention made hands he could have that are worse than yours.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

results?

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

JJ or less likely AJc. If he could do this with any kind of semibluff I call. I probably fold this here though, it smells strong to me.

later
illmatic

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

I would muck it,

..At least in theory.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

I never fold here.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call, you have a set

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

for those who say call... what do you guys think he is pushing with?... 77 or JTs?

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

This is the easiest call of all time. We are heads up and we have a set. Enough said.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
results?

[/ QUOTE ]

I folded. Although most have said to call, none who did said what they expected the villian to be holding.
I hate folding sets as much as the next man, but I didn't think that I was ahead enough to call this hand vs this opponent (vs some opponents I instacall.)

slightly related brag: I played a hand today that reminded me of the originally posted hand (this is vs a different guy.)
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($582.02)
BB ($469.05)
UTG ($335.78)
MP ($253.66)
CO ($400)
Hero ($646.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, SB (poster) calls $12, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($32) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $30.86</font>, Hero calls $30.86.

Turn: ($93.72) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $139.41</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $508.95</font>, SB calls $397.75 (All-In), Hero calls $28.21.

River: ($1168.04) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $1168.04

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Qd 7s (two pair, queens and sevens).
Hero has 9s Td (straight, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins $1168.04. </font>

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

Villian could have any 2 pair, 77, or some weird crap that none of us are thinking of right now, or a semi bluff. This is why it is a very easy call.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
I did not think that he would have taken this line with JJ or 77

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Really? Why not?

I would auto-call. This could easily be a variety of two pairs, or pair+draw kind of hands.

I would usually RR PF, in a blind battle.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

well, it's not the worst fold ever, but it's pretty bad. short handed against an aggro opponent who you've been clashing with? yeah, he could have KT or T8, but most of the time you have him crushed and he's making a move with a pair+draw.

Re: 400nl, set vs turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did not think that he would have taken this line with JJ or 77

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Why not?

[/ QUOTE ]


I thought that with either of those hands, this player would have either bet the flop harder or 3bet it.

A large part of my decision to fold was that he had not been aggressive on the turn in my other play vs him that session, just on the flop. What do people think of this sort of 'read'?

I'm starting to think that I was outplayed, and that I should have called.

[ QUOTE ]
I would auto-call. This could easily be a variety of two pairs, or pair+draw kind of hands.

I would usually RR PF, in a blind battle.

[/ QUOTE ]