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Best tournament player of all time
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
How does Madsen make the list, but no Raymer or Ivey? There are lots of tourney players better than Madsen. How bout Cunningham, Siedel, or Harrington?
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Hellmuth takes early lead
and my vote too
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
T,
Raymer has what, one WSOP bracelet? Madsen has 2 and a 3rd place finish in his first month of tourney play. Ivey I am not sure if that guy plays tournaments, I think he is mainly a cash games player. Cunningham? Not sure who he is. Seidel I think just got second place, losing to the great Johnny Chan. Harrington I know writes some great books, but I am focused on guys who play a lot of tournaments and are WSOP bracelet winners in this poll (and guys like John Gale who are both WSOP and WPT champions). |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
lol. This is a joke..no stuey. Hands down the best tournament player ever.
cheers Boon |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
Sorry all, I missed a couple of top guys in my initial poll, you can vote for them here.
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
You're kidding right (I hope)? Ivey I think has 5 titles in WSOP, Cunningham I believe 3 at least, Seidel 8 or 9, etc. Where is Chris Ferguson?
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
imso,
OK, I do not know who this cunninham guy is, but i'm pretty sure you are confused about Ivey. He plays in the big cash games (mainly Stud) and is not a tournament player. I am not sure about Seidel, but I know for sure he lost to Johnny Chan when Johnny Chan trapped him with the nuts in the WSOP and I would be surprised if he really has 8 or 9 titles (maybe you mean final table appearances, which is a different thing), 1 or 2 would be more believable. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
T, Raymer has what, one WSOP bracelet? Madsen has 2 and a 3rd place finish in his first month of tourney play. Ivey I am not sure if that guy plays tournaments, I think he is mainly a cash games player. Cunningham? Not sure who he is. Seidel I think just got second place, losing to the great Johnny Chan. Harrington I know writes some great books, but I am focused on guys who play a lot of tournaments and are WSOP bracelet winners in this poll (and guys like John Gale who are both WSOP and WPT champions). [/ QUOTE ] Ivey played lots of tournaments before he was introduced to the big game and still plays some I believe. He has won a few big ones, but can't really remember which. One in Monte Carlo and The Foxwoods maybe? |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
Gotta be Gale. So much success so early...imagine when his understanding of the game catches up with his natural talent. Scary.
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
oy,
OK, well, I can believe maybe he won some tournament in Monte Carlo, but who cares about that, I've never even heard of it so no way is it a prestigious tournament. If this poll was for greatest poker player, Ivey would be high up there because he is really high up there among great cash games players (along with other cash games legends like Chip Reese, David Sklansky, Todd Brunson, John D'Agastino and Jennifer Harman), but I do not really think he is a tournament player. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
Guys,
I just want to clarify. I am not saying all these other guys you are mentioning suck. I am just saying that they are not at the level of the guys in my initial poll, which is focused on the cream of the cream, the true all-time great legends of tournament play. |
Maybe check this list out
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Re: Maybe check this list out
haha diablo, gold
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure about Seidel, but I know for sure he lost to Johnny Chan when Johnny Chan trapped him with the nuts in the WSOP and I would be surprised if he really has 8 or 9 titles (maybe you mean final table appearances, which is a different thing), 1 or 2 would be more believable. [/ QUOTE ] Seidel has 7 WSOP bracelets and is currently 11th alltime on the Hendon Mob money list. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
imso,
I am not sure what your point is, maybe these guys have had some limited success in tourneys, that's fine but in this poll I am limiting the candidates to the real all-time tourney greats. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
Guys,
Sorry, realized I left off one more important candidate. Edited to add: I don't think The Grinder has a WSOP bracelet yet, but it's pretty obvious he'll win one this year, so you can still vote for him. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
el diablo, i opened this thread wondering if i would vote for ivey. i think he is the best tourament player right now. dont know about "of all time" though. surprised youre arguing he shouldnt even be on the list.
edit: nevermind. now that i see the grinder on the list, i want to change my vote to him. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
T, Raymer has what, one WSOP bracelet? Madsen has 2 and a 3rd place finish in his first month of tourney play. Ivey I am not sure if that guy plays tournaments, I think he is mainly a cash games player. Cunningham? Not sure who he is. Seidel I think just got second place, losing to the great Johnny Chan. Harrington I know writes some great books, but I am focused on guys who play a lot of tournaments and are WSOP bracelet winners in this poll (and guys like John Gale who are both WSOP and WPT champions). [/ QUOTE ] Below are the stats for one of the people you list above, including 4 main event final tables as well as two bracelets in the same year Not to say that he is the best, but perhaps better than a few that you list in your poll 2006 37th WSOP NLHE 07/23/2006 23rd $18,655.00 2006 Mirage Poker Showdown NLHE Heads Up 05/12/2006 6th $18,624.00 2006 Bay 101 Shooting Star NLHE Championship 03/03/2006 22nd $50,000.00 2005 Festa al Lago IV's North American Poker Championship NLHE 10/21/2005 2nd $620,730.00 2005 World Poker Challenge NLHE Championship 04/01/2005 22nd $10,352.00 2005 L.A. Poker Classic NLHE Championship 02/22/2005 17th $36,165.00 2004 World Poker Finals NLHE Multiplay 11/19/2004 4th $45,000.00 2004 35th WSOP NLHE Main Event 05/28/2004 4th $1,500,000.00 2004 2nd Annual Five-Star World Poker Classic WPT NLHE Championship 04/23/2004 21st $49,899.00 2003 Four Queens Poker Classic NLHE - Main Event 10/05/2003 5th $25,875.00 2003 Borgata Poker Open - WPT 09/19/2003 5th $7,785.00 34th WSOP 2003 Main Event 05/23/2003 3rd $650,000.00 28th WSOP 1997 NLHE 05/08/1997 17th $5,208.00 27th WSOP 1996 NLHE Main Event 05/16/1996 17th $23,400.00 26th WSOP 1995 NLHE Main Event 05/18/1995 1st $1,000,000.00 26th WSOP 1995 NLHE 05/12/1995 1st $249,000.00 18th WSOP 1987 NLHE Main Event 05/14/1987 6th $43,750.00 total earnings > $4.3M |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
OK, I do not know who this cunninham guy is, but i'm pretty sure you are confused about Ivey. He plays in the big cash games (mainly Stud) and is not a tournament player. I am not sure about Seidel, but I know for sure he lost to Johnny Chan when Johnny Chan trapped him with the nuts in the WSOP and I would be surprised if he really has 8 or 9 titles (maybe you mean final table appearances, which is a different thing), 1 or 2 would be more believable. [/ QUOTE ] Wait a sec...you're running a poll of the best tournament players ever, and you don't know who Allan Cunningham is (2 bracelets and consistent success the past several years), you don't think Phil Ivey is a tournament player (maybe the best of all time, especially considering he only plays $10K and higher buy-in events these days), and you don't believe that Erik Seidel has had much WSOP success (seven bracelets in five different events). No offense, but I'm not sure you're qualified to put together the list of all-time best tournament players. You also left Stu Ungar off the list, as well as Dan Harrington. -Aces |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
imso, I am not sure what your point is, maybe these guys have had some limited success in tourneys, that's fine but in this poll I am limiting the candidates to the real all-time tourney greats. [/ QUOTE ] I guess Madsen qualifies then. He is on the all-time money list (rank: 307th). Methinks the Masked Man has ulterior motives in this troll, oops, I meant poll. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
sarcasm meter finally working
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
Aces: I added Stu Ungar in a followup poll. I already explained why Harrington isnt on the list, even though he is a great tournament book author.
Red: I'm sure there are many guys who have won a couple bracelets and stuff, but as I've said before, I'm not listing all the good tourney players, just the all-time greats. Jack: Not sure how accurate your Seidel info is, but I dont think anyone would ever pick him over Johnny Chan ever no matter what, so he definitely doesnt belong on the list. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
sarcasm meter finally working [/ QUOTE ] Gee, someone woke up. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
This thread is a joke, right? 22k+ posts and this thread is the best you can do?
"...but who cares about that, I've never even heard of it so no way is it a prestigious tournament..." So any tourney you haven't heard of is basically a home game? "...which is focused on the cream of the cream, the true all-time great legends of tournament play..." So all-time greats include Madsen, a one-time player? "Sorry, realized I left off one more important candidate." So then you add in the Grinder, failing to mention the countless other tourney player who have been at it longer - and have written successful books on the subject? |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
"Phil's World Poker Tour credits in season one include a third place finish at the Foxwoods event, second at Tunica, and third at the World Poker Tour Final. In season three, he finished 6th at Borgata, 3rd at Reno Hilton, and third again at the World Poker Tour Championship. He has five World Series of Poker bracelets. In 2000, he won the Pot Limit event, in 2002 he won the S.H.O.E, 7-Card Stud Hi-Lo Split, and the $1500 7 Card stud event and in 2005 he won the Pot Limit Omaha event. Two other notable finishes are his first place finishes at the 2004 Championship at Turning Stone and 2005 Monte Carlo Millions."
From a site called poker-babes.com. Yeah, I googled, not something I frequent daily. But I get your point Diablo, there are and have been better tourney players. I just wanted to put some facts behind my [censored]. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
All,
Looks like it's clear 1-2 battle between Hellmuth and Madsen. I would hope some of you recognize that most of Hellmuth's wins came at a time when very few people played in the tournaments, so you should definitely discount much of his early performance and focus on his recent lack of success. When you look at it in an unbiased manner like that, I think it's clear that Madsen's accomplishments are far more impressive. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] OK, I do not know who this cunninham guy is, but i'm pretty sure you are confused about Ivey. He plays in the big cash games (mainly Stud) and is not a tournament player. I am not sure about Seidel, but I know for sure he lost to Johnny Chan when Johnny Chan trapped him with the nuts in the WSOP and I would be surprised if he really has 8 or 9 titles (maybe you mean final table appearances, which is a different thing), 1 or 2 would be more believable. [/ QUOTE ] Wait a sec...you're running a poll of the best tournament players ever, and you don't know who Allan Cunningham is (2 bracelets and consistent success the past several years), you don't think Phil Ivey is a tournament player (maybe the best of all time, especially considering he only plays $10K and higher buy-in events these days), and you don't believe that Erik Seidel has had much WSOP success (seven bracelets in five different events). No offense, but I'm not sure you're qualified to put together the list of all-time best tournament players. You also left Stu Ungar off the list, as well as Dan Harrington. -Aces [/ QUOTE ] I think this is where the misunderstandinhg comes from. Some of the people Diablo omitted might have had success in non-hold'em events, but that wouldn't matter in discussion of greatest tournament player of all time since success in non-hold'em events is really more a matter of luck than skill so shouldn't factor into the equation. That's why the list is only all the people who have had a lot of HOLD'EM success. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
T, Raymer has what, one WSOP bracelet? Madsen has 2 and a 3rd place finish in his first month of tourney play. Ivey I am not sure if that guy plays tournaments, I think he is mainly a cash games player. Cunningham? Not sure who he is. Seidel I think just got second place, losing to the great Johnny Chan. Harrington I know writes some great books, but I am focused on guys who play a lot of tournaments and are WSOP bracelet winners in this poll (and guys like John Gale who are both WSOP and WPT champions). [/ QUOTE ] I don't even understand how you can say that Madsen, who granted has done well in the few tournaments he has played, is a better tournament player than Allen Cunningham, Dan Harrington, or Phil Ivey. All of whom have a long track record of success in tournaments. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
FF,
Good to hear some feedback from someone who has actually played with many of these tourney legends in WSOP tourneys. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is where the misunderstandinhg comes from. Some of the people Diablo omitted might have had success in non-hold'em events, but that wouldn't matter in discussion of greatest tournament player of all time since success in non-hold'em events is really more a matter of luck than skill so shouldn't factor into the equation. That's why the list is only all the people who have had a lot of HOLD'EM success. [/ QUOTE ] Am I being had? Is my sarcasm-meter broken? |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
I want to vote for Steve Dannenman and Chris Moneymaker then. Oh, and Robert Varkonyi would be my choice for best of all time.
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Re: Best tournament player of all time
This is a pretty good poll, but I don't see the need to diferentiate between best tourney player and best player period... why else do we have tournaments, if not to determine who is the best?...
Therefore Madsen is the GOAT, and not just tournaments, period! |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
lol. This is a joke..no stuey. Hands down the best tournament player ever. cheers Boon [/ QUOTE ] True enough... Stu Ungar. And Ivey has 5 bracelets in 4 different games I believe. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
[ QUOTE ]
FF, Good to hear some feedback from someone who has actually played with many of these tourney legends in WSOP tourneys. [/ QUOTE ] Diablo, I actually have played with both John Gale and phill Hellmuth in the last week and each time I was sitting with one of them, Gale had way more chips relative to average than did Hellmuth. Maybe that should clarify this debate some. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
T,
Not sure how many times I need to repeat myself, but I will say it for you one more time: Madsen: Proven WSOP championship material, perhaps greatest WSOP performance in history already, just one month into his tourney pro poker career. Cunninham: Never heard of this so-called Allen Cunninham Harrington: Great author, but I am focused on legendary tourney PLAYERS in this thread. Ivey: One of the great poker players of all-time, but a cash games player, not a tournament player. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
who cares about all those old tournaments?... those fogeys like reese wouldn't have a prayer in a big ol' field like we have now..
Madsen for President! |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
El D
I think you forgot Mark Seif, he won 2 bracelets last year like in a week. Also, you should consider Men the Master, he has won like 3452 $100 Crazy Pinapple tournaments in LA. |
Re: Best tournament player of all time
FF: I think we will see a lot from Gale, but I think he is just beginning to cement his legend as the poll results reflect.
CC: I added Stuey to the poll. imso: If you think Dannenman, Varkonyi, and Moneymaker measure up to the legends in this poll, you have absolutely no clue about tournament poker. |
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