Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

I really suck with super deep stacks. When I started playing nl cash it took me a while to learn to play 100bb stacks (I'm a tournament donkey). Then eventually I got comfortable playing 200bb, but never had much experience playing 400bb deep cause at 2/4nl most people run away after winning a few buy ins. Now at 5/10 I expect to have to play deeper I suppose. Here is probably my first confrontation with very deep stacks.

The villain in this hand seems to be a good multi tabler. He is probably more tricky and aggressive than most, although I don't recall how he got his stack. I don't have a very specific read on him. My table image is sort of LAG ish, but not in a bad way I guess. Anyway, this hand really just confused me and I wasn't sure when to put in a raise if ever.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($1000)
Button ($1090)
SB ($975)
BB ($965)
UTG ($4150)
Hero ($3884)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $35</font>, Hero calls $35, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $35, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($120) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $85</font>, Hero calls $85, Button folds.

Turn: ($290) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $220</font>, Hero calls $220.

River: ($730) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero...

Comments on all streets, not just a river decision. Thanks.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

U played it fine. Check the river right behind and hope he has 1010 or 88. If he has a set or Jack you saved money by checking the river.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

Looks fine - I don't mind a raise on the turn either as long as he's not prone to a 3bet push semi-bluff there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The raise should scare him and he might still call with a weird draw which you can check behind if called.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

3bet pre all day

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

Looks ok to me, but why no reraise PF?

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

The deep stacks should not be a problem here because your holding is not good enough to back with a stack. You can raise at any point (pre, flop, turn) and if he comes over the top big you are done with the hand. You aren't quite bluffing by raising, but you don't have a 3-betting hand.

Remember, he's got to be concerned with your stack too, so he's unlikely to make big moves on you.

You played it quite conservatively, which is fine in my book. Checking the river behind is appropriate given the action.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

no value in betting because he could easily be chk-calling KK/AA here and you are throwing money away.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

I think this is played perfectly. Now check the river. I don't like re-raise preflop here. Hope to hit a set and bust him or win a nice small pot like it looks like you did here. Why re-raise and either take it down preflop or give him a chance to take away your implied odds by re-raising you?

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

This deep I really don't see much value in reraising preflop. I'd rather have him think my range is huge, than allow him to play pretty easily against me.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

ansky, if you are re-raising actively preflop in position, then your range is still huge.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

Fair enough, but I suppose its just my style to tend to cold call a lot of raises in position instead of reraising. I guess I could mix in raises with some not so premium holdings as well though.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

raise flop, and check river. standard?

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

Why raise flop, my hand is fairly marginal.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

You think hes going to call with AA / KK if you pot the river after he checks?

He doesnt have a J.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

i think you need to bet on the end full pot.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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i think you need to bet on the end full pot.

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Hi LA..how often do think a worse hand is going to call you here?

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

i want a better hand to fold. and this is how i would "allegedly" play AJ on that board. especially if dude thinks im bad.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

Why would that be a bad players way of playing AJ or KJs or something like that? It would seem ok.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

I agree. You have to pot bet the river to get AA or KK out of there and win the pot. It would be very tough for them to check/call the pot on this river.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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Why would that be a bad players way of playing AJ or KJs or something like that? It would seem ok.


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lacking reads, i do not call down ep raisers who continue to bet when all i have is top pair on a J high board. there are times for it, but i would not call it a winning play.

if other dude is a thinking player, i am more inclined to raise on the obvious scare card as that is the same thing i will do when bluffing him. bad players don't fold anyway, so i would be more inclined to just call 1st two streets and let him put the money in until the river when he will often times feel more "committed" (not for mathematical reasons but for personal ones - like "this is the river, i made it this far i have to call).

i don't think ive totally expressed all of this as i wanted to, but i have to go and hope the idea comes through a bit.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

dude - i am dumb- i thought a jack came on the turn.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

he has AA or KK most likely.. I would not bet, he is going to call any bet you make. You know hard it is to get people to lay down one of those hands...

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

If you are going to flat call with QQ preflop, you have to raise either the flop or the turn. Personally I would make it $800 on the turn. It's easy to throw away if he reraises allin, and you have position on the river.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

I dont bet this river. I may pop it on flop or turn, but this looks fine too.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

i like a turn raise. As played i bet river for value, about 1/2 pot.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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i like a turn raise. As played i bet river for value, about 1/2 pot.

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Value? What hands could he possibly have that would call, smaller than queens?

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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i like a turn raise. As played i bet river for value, about 1/2 pot.

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The only way you're betting this river for value is if you're handing the other player your money. You need to bet full-pot for better hands to possibly fold, or just check behind.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

That turn smooth call sucks..raise it up. You have to find out where you are. What if the jack didn't fall on the river and he makes another pot sized bet...

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have to find out where you are.

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I find this idea highly overrated.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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That turn smooth call sucks..raise it up. You have to find out where you are. What if the jack didn't fall on the river and he makes another pot sized bet...

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thats the worst advice ever read more having in mind that there are deep stacks involved. check river he would want call a bluff with his trips.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

If OP has not been reraising generally and especially against the other deep stack I would much rather reraise him light for a while before playing a reraised pot vs utg open with QQ with these stacks. Playing the first reraised pot with 300bb stacks and QQ against UTG seems like a spot where hero is going to end up in a veeery tough spot somewhere along the hand, and the pot will be bloated.
Raise the turn. There is very little value left on the river if you just call turn because villain isn't going to 3barrel with air or Jx often enough(on a non-J river) and he will simply c/f on the river to your valuebet.
As played check is fine, you could try 1/2-2/3 pot for value unless villain is supertricky and will make it 3k often knowing you propably dont have a J. You might feel stupid after checking it down with such a "strong hand".

Also, dont call a 3bet on the turn. Unless you feel like floating and shoving some rivers as bluffs/rebluffs.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

if you don't reraise w/ QQ in position preflop, or on the flop/turn, what hands will you do it with? if you're only reraising with KK+, you'll never get paid. also, why so leary of UTG raise in 6max, doesn't it play more like a mid position raise in full ring? or is it not the UTG raise, but the deep stacks making you cautious?

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

wtf who bumped this?

god i sucked

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

results? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

this thread is funny, 99% of the people that posted in this thread back in the day would probably disagree with themselves now

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

lol i was reading this trying to figure out why the hell ansky didnt 3bet with QQ pf 400 bb deep...

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

I didnt realize it was old until i saw durrrr giving advice. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

I like how you played it, when he check the river I checkb ehidn.

Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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god everyone sucked

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Re: Very deep 5/10 overpair
 

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god everyone sucked

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yeah lol, this thread was hilarious