QTo butchery
 

I don't know if what I need on this hand is feedback or just to get slapped around for playing like a moron.

UTG is a loose passive numb skull. He tends to give up easily postflop without a pair, so I raised to isolate him.

BB is a solid TAG. I know that he will check/raise top pair weak kicker, middle pairs on weak boards, etc. when given the opportunity.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (9.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero pukes.

Re: QTo butchery
 

I feel like you wouldn't have given this hand a second thought if he didn't c/r the river.

Quick question: if you had just called the turn, do you raise this river? Do you pay off a 3-bet?

Re: QTo butchery
 

Preflop: I think raising here is smart for the reasons you described.

Flop: I would rather 3bet here. BB probably realizes that you're betting in this spot approximately 100% of the time, so his check/raising standards are going to be fairly liberal.

Turn: If there is wisdom to just calling on the flop, I think it is so you can raise if the turn is a blank. The 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is not a blank, but it does give you redraws. Considering how you played the flop and the two aforementioned factors, I would rather just be passive and call. That said, my prefered line is to 3bet the flop and bet the turn.

River: The pot is pretty big here, so I think this is a fairly clear call with trips.

Just my opinion...

Re: QTo butchery
 

1) Payoff
2) Fold pre-flop, goof

Re: QTo butchery
 

dito the bryce.

Re: QTo butchery
 

[ QUOTE ]

2) Fold pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

What if you were CO, BT?

Re: QTo butchery
 

I see no problem raising that with his read of UTG. On these type of boards with a weaker kick I usually lead to 3betting flop and leading turn. With the way you played it (which I do sometimes also) you have to call river and hope he is being frisky with some JT, A9 or Q8 type of hand.

Re: QTo butchery
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see no problem raising that with his read of UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the tendencies of the players yet to act are way more important in the given situation.

Re: QTo butchery
 

I would also say that I normally raise QTos in that position and if anything the UTG limp is an added reason to raise.

Re: QTo butchery
 

If you are going to call the flop CR and raise the turn, I think you should abort the plan with this turn card. The way you played it I would call the river. I also fold preflop.

Re: QTo butchery
 

I call the river without hesitation. Given your read of the limper I would iso-raise on the button or CO, but fold in MP.

Re: QTo butchery
 

If this villain checkraises a lot with marginal hands, I would have just called down after the flop C/R, and bet into any weakness.

Re: QTo butchery
 

I'd rather 3bet the flop checkraise than raise the turn on this board vs. this player.

Re: QTo butchery
 

Could you explain your rational behind your turn raise?

Re: QTo butchery
 

@ TeeJayOrTJ,SparkyDog,Moneyline
Why do you 3-bet the flop?
I see no reasons for that.

Re: QTo butchery
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could you explain your rational behind your turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rational is that the TAGgish villain's flop check/raising standards are very wide - mid pocket pairs, middle pair overcard kicker, weaker Queen. I've seen him pull this move correctly several times in both this session and previous sessions. If he 3-bets me it's an easy muck, if he has a worse hand I make an extra bet.

That was my thinking at the time, at least, and even just looking at the hand history without knowing the final results, I feel that this thinking was flawed. As another poster said already, the turn was not a blank but I have a redraw.

It didn't matter, as villain rolled over 6s full, and i was drawing almost dead on the flop. The good result of this hand was that I recognized that I had just lost a big pot on another table, was possibly getting a bit tilty, and quit the session up a bit, rather than tilting it all back.

Re: QTo butchery
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see no problem raising that with his read of UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the tendencies of the players yet to act are way more important in the given situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are right, and other respondents in this thread should heed this advice. The players behind me generally respected my raises, though a leak of mine is that I tend to not evaluate the looseness/tightness of those yet to act before iso-raising. Thanks for reminding me of this.

Re: QTo butchery
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could you explain your rational behind your turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Rational is that the TAGgish villain's flop check/raising standards are very wide - mid pocket pairs, middle pair overcard kicker, weaker Queen. I've seen him pull this move correctly several times in both this session and previous sessions.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, then I'd rather three bang the flop and punish him right there. If he caps I'm inclined to think Top Pair Ten kicker or maybe Top Pair with any kicker is not winning.

Some guys might checkraise the flop with with a flush draw too which would argue for repopping the flop and then just calling if he bets out on the turn.