Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

Since Hezbollah is being directly supported by Iranian troops how should Israel respond to Iran? What options does Israel have?

1. Diplomacy is out of the question. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stated that Israel should be wiped of the planet. Israel must take this seriously.
2. Due to geography Israel has no means to wage a conventional war against Iran.
3. The only option remaining is a nuclear strike on Tehran and other key military targets in Iran. Israel has put satellites in orbit so they are capable of hitting anywhere in Iran with a nuclear missile.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

I agree with you on the Iran part and perhaps we can throw Syria in there as well since they are being supplied by them also?

I'm not sure if the nuclear weapon is a good idea, but couldn't an air campaign be effective?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Since Hezbollah is being directly supported by Iranian troops how should Israel respond to Iran? What options does Israel have?

1. Diplomacy is out of the question. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stated that Israel should be wiped of the planet. Israel must take this seriously.
2. Due to geography Israel has no means to wage a conventional war against Iran.
3. The only option remaining is a nuclear strike on Tehran and other key military targets in Iran. Israel has put satellites in orbit so they are capable of hitting anywhere in Iran with a nuclear missile.

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How about a chess match? Each side puts up six players and they play each of the six players from the other side twice, once as white and once as black.

Of course, if either side can walk on water, or change water to wine, well then, all bets are off and they win by default.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

Where's the option for getting the hell out of lebanon completely and not being such a nasty and brutish country?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

diplomacy is never out of the question.
whoever starts that war i hope it will be punished severely.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Since Hezbollah is being directly supported by Iranian troops how should Israel respond to Iran?

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Given our Prez's ability to fudge the truth to attain hidden agendas, one has to question the report about Iranian troops directly supporting the Hezbollah.

Any credible sources?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Since Hezbollah is being directly supported by Iranian troops how should Israel respond to Iran?

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Given our Prez's ability to fudge the truth to attain hidden agendas, one has to question the report about Iranian troops directly supporting the Hezbollah.

Any credible sources?

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Let me ask you this: Why would a small militia, such as Hezbollah attack such a powerful foe in comparision to their military ability?

Ask yourself this: Why was Kuwait willing to stand up to a much more powerful country (militarily) such as Iraq in the 90's, and continue to flood the market with oil, when Iraq was screaming foul, as it caused a dramatic drop in the price of oil, harming Iraq's economy? Iraq warned them that they'd attack if they didn't stop. But little ol' Kuwait just kept it up. Now what were they thinking?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Since Hezbollah is being directly supported by Iranian troops how should Israel respond to Iran? What options does Israel have?

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After the 25000 americans are evacuated from Lebanon, Isreal will likely bomb targets in Syria. Iran is committed to defend Syria but exactly how are they going to do this? If Iran launch missles or an air strike at Isreal, they pretty much have to fly over Iraq. Do you think the US is going to let the Iranians over fly Iraq? The Iranians, however, are committed to defending Syria. What you may see happen is Isreal will end up taking on Syria, and the US will end up end up taking on Iran.

Speculating even further, the Isrealies will destroy the Syrians. Iran's nose will be bloodied by the Americans and the Iranians will have an excuse in the arab world for not being able to defend Syria. They will jump on the fact that Americans used Iraq soil to defend Isreal. They will incite the Iraqis to demand the withdraw of American troops from Iraq on the pretense America is just using Iraq to defend Isreal.

Stu

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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diplomacy is never out of the question.
whoever starts that war i hope it will be punished severely.

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Its pretty obvious that Iran, using Hizbolla as its proxy, started this war.

Stu

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

Is this going to leave me, the average, US citizen better off or worse off?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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diplomacy is never out of the question.
whoever starts that war i hope it will be punished severely.

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Its pretty obvious that Iran, using Hizbolla as its proxy, started this war.

Stu

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My thoughts exactly.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Is this going to leave me, the average, US citizen better off or worse off?

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Hard to say. The US will ultimately benefit if there is a democratic Iran, Iraq, and Syria. I'm saddend because I have come to the conclusion that could only happen with the expediture of lives into the millions.

Stu

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Is this going to leave me, the average, US citizen better off or worse off?

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IMO, it depends as to whether or not the states that sponsor terrorism, (Iran and Syria in this case) are annihilated. At the very least rendered nearly completely harmless. Furthermore, to be completely honest I believe that the free world would be better off by exterminating this religious fanaticism completely. If it involves killing women, children and destroying the mosques in which this insanity is taught then so be it. It's time to stop pussyfooting around with it and fix the problem by erradicating them from the earth.

That's my opinion though. Surely there will be those that will tell me how evil/wrong/heartless and insensitive I am.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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If it involves killing women, children and destroying the mosques in which this insanity is taught then so be it. It's time to stop pussyfooting around with it and fix the problem by erradicating them from the earth.


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In certan sense I agree with you. We have to wage this war in such a way that our enemy is left with no fight in them. However it puts me into an ethical delema which I have yet to resolve. I have a hard time targeting non combatants.

Stu

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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If it involves killing women, children and destroying the mosques in which this insanity is taught then so be it. It's time to stop pussyfooting around with it and fix the problem by erradicating them from the earth.


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In certan sense I agree with you. We have to wage this war in such a way that our enemy is left with no fight in them. However it puts me into an ethical delema which I have yet to resolve. I have a hard time targeting non combatants.

Stu

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Agreed. However, when you have to decide them or us and safety/security, I don't think diplomacy is an option.

If anyone does think diplomacy is an option, please explain how.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Agreed. However, when you have to decide them or us and safety/security, I don't think diplomacy is an option.


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Well, for one I don't think people today are as tough as they were 60 years ago. I think its a little easier to make them truely miserable and knock the fight out of them.

I don' think we need to carpet bomb cities. It may be enough to target vital infrastructure such as power plants, ports, and water treatment facilities, bridges, etc.

Stu

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

I think that is the only long term solution, but dont think it will happen. Even Israel doesnt have the will for massive attacks and the collateral damage, even if they have the technological capabilities. The US wont get directly involved, even though it would ultimately alleviate the Iraq insurgency problem.

Russia and China will take our inaction as tacit surrender to their influence, and our influence in the ME will disappear.

It is impossible as a humane country to fight an inhumane enemy.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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It's time to stop pussyfooting around with it and fix the problem by erradicating them from the earth.

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Clearly what you need is a large detention center created for political opponents, enemy aliens, specific ethnic or religious groups or civilians of a critical war-zone.

You might want to avoid using the word concentraion camp though.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Clearly what you need is a large detention center created for political opponents, enemy aliens, specific ethnic or religious groups or civilians of a critical war-zone.

You might want to avoid using the word concentraion camp though.

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better yet we could try to install democracies in those countries.

Stu

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

Thanks for the replies. Let me address a few of your points.

1. An air campaign by Israel is not feasable. In the 1980's Israel bombed Iraq's nuclear facilities. In order to do this their fighter aircraft had to use fuel drop tanks to achieve that range. Tehran is much further and Israel has no long range bombers.

2. Israel left Lebannon 6 years ago with a U.N. resolution that Hezbollah be disarmed and the Lebannnon deploy their military along the Lebannon/Israel border. This did not happen, Hezbollah remained on the Israeli border. Hezbollah subsequently raided the Israeli military, kidnapped 2 soldiers, and launched rockets into Israel. This is an act of war and cannot occur without consequences.

3. It is a known fact that Iraqui military personel have been training with Hezbollah in Lebannon for years. Last year I saw a CNN story where they interviewed an Iraqui commander in front of Hezbollah and Iraqui troops at a training compound on the outskirts of Beirut.

In order to fight the terrorist organizations we need to make no distinction between those groups and the countries that support those groups. The time for sticking your head in the sand and appeasing terrorists should be over. Many good men have made the mistake of doing nothing in the face of fascism. Just look what happened when Neville Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler. Time for diplomacy is over for the Muslim fascists. Now is the time to kill them all.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Clearly what you need is a large detention center created for political opponents, enemy aliens, specific ethnic or religious groups or civilians of a critical war-zone.

You might want to avoid using the word concentraion camp though.

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better yet we could try to install democracies in those countries.

Stu

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Yea maybe, what ever we definately need some kind of final solution to this Muslim problem.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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If anyone does think diplomacy is an option, please explain how.

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I think that diplomacy is an option, we wouldn't even have to negotiate with anyone. Here's how we solve this problem from the US point of view in two easy steps:

1. Get out of Iraq and Kuwait.
2. Give Israel the Cuba treatment: no more money, weapons, trade or acting as their proxy in the UN.

This is much preferable to the "Glass Parking Lot" solution. I mean, Hitler much? Here's why:
1. I'm tired of Israel abusing the Palestinians. Israel is the Apartheid South Africa of the Mideast.
2. The fact that Israel has nukes is a big reason Iran is in the process of developing them.
3. They are a pretty worthless ally. We can't use their bases or armies for our adventures because they are such an international pariah that the minute we use them we have 10x as many headaches with our other allies.
4. I don't consider Israel a real democracy because they don't let the Palestinians vote.
5. I feel bad for the ordinary palestinians, who are about to start their 4th generation in refugee camps. Israel completely dominates these territories borders and economies and even controls the taxes the Palestinian Authority levies. WTF?
6. Israel has no right to anything east of the Green Line, including East Jerusalem.
7. Iraq is a quagmire, we're killing civilians, we've done everything we can over there, yadda yadda.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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4. I don't consider Israel a real democracy because they don't let the Palestinians vote.


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I dont consider the US a real democracy because they dont let Europeans vote.

With the ignorance you display, I'm stunned and dismayed you have the right to vote anywhere.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

iron81,

My threads are intended for intelligent thinking people. If you cannot keep your posts based in reality stay off my thread and let the adults debate.

billucf

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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4. I don't consider Israel a real democracy because they don't let the Palestinians vote.


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I dont consider the US a real democracy because they dont let Europeans vote.

With the ignorance you display, I'm stunned and dismayed you have the right to vote anywhere.

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Sigh. The US doesn't block Europe's roads, bomb it whenever they feel like it, take Europe's land to build condos and control its borders and financial transfers.

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iron81,

My threads are intended for intelligent thinking people. If you cannot keep your posts based in reality stay off my thread and let the adults debate.

billucf

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What do you mean not based in reality? The reality is there are two sides to the issue and shouldn't someone be taking the Palestinians side in this thread? Or can your side just not stand up to debate?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Where's the option for getting the hell out of lebanon completely and not being such a nasty and brutish country?

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right, and just let hezbollah continue to fire missiles into heavily populated cities in israel. I would love to see canada launch some missiles into your neighborhood and see how you react when your government does nothing.

I am comforted by the notion that the people defending hezbollah are the dumbest members of this board.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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What do you mean not based in reality? The reality is there are two sides to the issue and shouldn't someone be taking the Palestinians side in this thread? Or can your side just not stand up to debate?

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Based on your astute observation that Palestinians dont get to vote (the Israelis elected Hamas I suppose), debating would be as fruitful as discussing this issue with a cow.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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4. I don't consider Israel a real democracy because they don't let the Palestinians vote.


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What do you mean not based in reality? The reality is there are two sides to the issue and shouldn't someone be taking the Palestinians side in this thread? Or can your side just not stand up to debate?

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The problem with people like you is that you don't know the facts. Arabs are allowed to vote in israel. How many jews are allowed to vote in iran??

Did you know that there is an arab on israel's supreme court? his name is Salim Jubran. How many jews do you think would be allowed on the iranian or syrian supreme court??

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Where's the option for getting the hell out of lebanon completely and not being such a nasty and brutish country?

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right, and just let hezbollah continue to fire missiles into heavily populated cities in israel. I would love to see canada launch some missiles into your neighborhood and see how you react when your government does nothing.

I am comforted by the notion that the people defending hezbollah are the dumbest members of this board.

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Or, they could, I dunno Attack Hezbollah instead of using the Hezbollah attack as a pretext to teach Lebanon/Syria a lesson. You see, you don't have to target power plants, roads and civilian airports if you don't want to. The US in Iraq does a much better job of this than the Israelis are doing. Here is how the US would handle this:

1. Direct fire on the rocket positions. The US has the technology to track incoming fire by radar and respond with artillery in about 20 seconds. I would be shocked if Israel didn't have this.
2. Special forces in Lebanon to find the rocket teams. This is doable, that area of Lebanon really isn't that big.
3. Utilize intel to actually find the missing soldiers.
4. Use special forces to recover the soldiers.

Isn't this a better method than an all out war?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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4. I don't consider Israel a real democracy because they don't let the Palestinians vote.


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What do you mean not based in reality? The reality is there are two sides to the issue and shouldn't someone be taking the Palestinians side in this thread? Or can your side just not stand up to debate?

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The problem with people like you is that you don't know the facts. Arabs are allowed to vote in israel. How many jews are allowed to vote in iran??

Did you know that there is an arab on israel's supreme court? his name is Salim Jubran. How many jews do you think would be allowed on the iranian or syrian supreme court??

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I will admit that I didn't know that an arab was on the Isreali Supreme court, but I did know that Israeli Arabs had the right to vote. But you'll notice that I didn't say Arabs couldn't vote, I said Palestinians couldn't vote. The Palestinians far outnumber the Israeli Arabs and the primary reason Israel won't let them vote is so Israel can keep dominating the Palestinians without regard to their well being. And in case anyone tries to argue that it is a geographical difference (Palestine and Israel are separate countries), settlers in the West Bank can vote.

And to answer your point about Iran letting Jews vote, I bet they do to the extent that Iran is a democracy and not run by the Mullahs. I'm not aware of a significant Jewish community in Iran, but if there are a few living there, they probably fly under the radar. But even if they didn't let Jews vote, two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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1. Direct fire on the rocket positions.

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Brilliant idea, then we can have hundreds of dead civilians for you to cry about. These missiles are being launched from villages. An israeli missile could kill hundreds in a densely populated region.

Israeli is blowing up the roads and airports to limit the mobility of hezbollah and limit their ability to communicate. while it is destructive it costs only money to repair and takes less human life.

but continue with your BS talking points that totally ignore facts.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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diplomacy is never out of the question.
whoever starts that war i hope it will be punished severely.

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Its pretty obvious that Iran, using Hizbolla as its proxy, started this war.

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did USA ever use another party as proxy? did USA then started a war?
in that case it wouldn't be only about 30 agressions of USA towards other independent countries since WWII, but much more. i don't think that, but that is what you are saying.

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Are you aware that there is a Jewish member of parliament in Iran?

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Are you aware that there is a Jewish member of parliament in Iran?

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actually, i was not. Willing to admit i was wrong as you should with your comments.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Are you aware that there is a Jewish member of parliament in Iran?

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actually, i was not. Willing to admit i was wrong as you should with your comments.

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When I am, I do.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

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Brilliant idea, then we can have hundreds of dead civilians for you to cry about. These missiles are being launched from villages.

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Said who? I haven't heard about this. And even if it were true, collateral damage has never stopped israel before in the West Bank and at least they would be trying to deal with the actual problem. To be honest, I would rather Israel set up the security zone again than what they are doing, although that is still a bad idea.

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Israeli is blowing up the roads and airports to limit the mobility of hezbollah and limit their ability to communicate.

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These are terrorists we are talking about. They don't need the ability to move or communicate.

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but continue with your BS talking points that totally ignore facts.

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My main news source is the Chicago Tribune, which is right of center. I think my only exposure to Arab news sources was when I visited al-jazeera.com once or twice a couple years back. Trust me, no one I read recommends cutting off Israel as in my first post.

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These are terrorists we are talking about. They don't need the ability to move or communicate. [

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really???

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These are terrorists we are talking about. They don't need the ability to move or communicate. [

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really???

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Not to the extent that blowing up bridges or runways will significantly hamper them.

Re: Israel and the Nuclear Option
 

About the OP, this isn't TRL. I know you all would love the entertaining value of an all out war, but Israel have yet to start a ground attack on southern Lebanon, so no, a "nuclear war" isn't going to happen. Stop watching bad action movies.

Here comes the Dalek
 

This is actually beyond naivete; it reaches into idiocy.

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Since Hezbollah is being directly supported by Iranian troops how should Israel respond to Iran? What options does Israel have?
...
The only option remaining is a nuclear strike on Tehran.

[/ QUOTE ]Yep, this is the only option. You're absolutely right. Absolutely right.

Who can argue with that? Just let the drip work.

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Israel has put satellites in orbit so they are capable of hitting anywhere in Iran with a nuclear missile.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely right. Nuclear weapon-carrying Israeli satellites.

And laser beams from the Israeli base on the moon. Don't forget the moon.