Live at the Bike
 

I find it funny that they are charging $14.95 to watch average poker. A few nights out of the week can you even really call it poker? What did the Bicycle Casino need to make some residual income? Are Bart and Dave demanding to make higher wages, that the casino can't afford. I really enjoyed watching L@TB, but I will refuse to pay 14.95 a month for it. It's funny, I thought $14.95 for the archives was well worth it, but this no way.

I used to recommend the show to other players I knew, but this is a rip off now. No offense to Bart or Dave, but this sucks. Hopefully they will change it back.

Jon Pedersen

Re: Live at the Bike
 

Yeah, I was kind of upset by this move because I really enjoyed watching L@TB but I guess I won't be doing so now.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

Your post really bothers me, and i don't know how to respond without resorting to calling all the people complaining cheap [censored].

For a year and a half they offered their product free to develop the product and to develop a fanbase, and they did this all at a probably significant loss. But in your mind the casino should continue to take this loss indefiinately, yet still continue to improve the product because its an otherwise profitable business.Ummm yeah, OK that makes sense [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Now they are charging a nominal monthly fee (whih was probably the plan when L@TB was first introduced) to see a much improved high quality professional product. $14.95 a month works out to less than $0.25 per hour of poker shown not even factoring in the 1500+ hours of archived footage available. 60 hours of entertaining poker a month (or even just 24 hours if your only interest in the big action shows on Wednesday and Friday) for what it costs to go see a movie. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

You want to call it "average" poker, I call it real poker. I can watch a new one or two hours of edited uninteresting poker on TV each week, but I have pay my cable company to watch that too. Im not complaining about the change because Ive been paying for the show for over 6 months because its good value for what they charge. But if you want me to sympathise with you I will: Boo Hooo jrpeders can't be a freeloader anymore boo hoo [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Live at the Bike
 

WoW, hadnt heard this. is it a one time fee forever or a monthly? One time I would probable be ok with but monthly? Now that would be laughable at best. I dont watch enough to pay for either option anymore. Lost interest in the show awhile ago.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

It's a monthly fee.

I had to dig thru the vast 2p2 archives, but I finally found the post I made back in February 2005, with the link to the original article mentioning the show: http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/artic...ews/news05.txt

It should be noted that they were going to start charging $20/month in March 2005. Obviously a few of their projections were a bit off, but the $14.95 covers both live and the archives if you're not able to watch the show live.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

I for one am definitely not forking up 15 bucks a month for L@tb. It was a fun thing to watch once or twice a week when I was bored, but other than that I wouldnt pay a dime to watch it.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was kind of upset by this move because I really enjoyed watching L@TB but I guess I won't be doing so now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Live at the Bike
 

I am a new viewer of Live at the Bike, but I think it is definately worth the monthly fee. I think the commentary and insight are great, and the fact that the poker can be 'average' is actually a benefit. These are the type of players and games that most of us will encounter in our own sessions, so what can be better than seeing actually hands played out with high level commentary?

Also, saying that paying a fee for the archives is okay but paying a fee for the live stream is a rip off simply makes no sense as the required subscription covers both. If you were paying for the archives before this doesn't even affect you. It only affects people who only watched the live streams.

Lee

Re: Live at the Bike
 

I would pay if they would show more mid-limit games. Seems like every time I check it out it's 5/5 NL. Maybe limit is dead and I'm crazy, but limit tables are usually packed at Commerce. Being able to watch 9/18 or 10/20 would be very educational for me, and I might find some value, but as it is... No thanks.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

man look at the hours projected to brodcast!

WHEN: 5-10 p.m

Man only if weds/fri was that long =)

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
man look at the hours projected to brodcast!

WHEN: 5-10 p.m

Man only if weds/fri was that long =)

[/ QUOTE ]

The show used to be 5 hours long until Bart got lazy.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would pay if they would show more mid-limit games. Seems like every time I check it out it's 5/5 NL. Maybe limit is dead and I'm crazy, but limit tables are usually packed at Commerce. Being able to watch 9/18 or 10/20 would be very educational for me, and I might find some value, but as it is... No thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

9/18 & 10/20 are not mid-limit.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

I think it's laughable that people are crying over a $15 month charge to watch the show and get access to hundreds of hours of poker. I'm surprised the show was ever free, and it was like that for about a year. Eventually when it got more popular it was going to become pay only, this was inevitable. $15 is what, a continuation bet to most of you? Give me a break.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

The advice you gain from the show is well worth the fee. It's less than the cost of one book on poker per month, and for that you get 60 hours of webcasts where you see pretty much any kind of various poker situation you might be faced with in cash games. If you're playing in mid-high limit games, that's also less than the cost of one pre-flop raise. Seems rediculously cheap in that context.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

I just saved $105 in a NL game at The Bike last night due to LATB. My ego wanted to call my opponent's all-in on the river but my rational mind kicked in and asked, "What can you beat?" (thx BarTuch).
I couldn't beat much and laid it down. My opponent showed 2pr...which I couldn't beat.

Just saved 7 months of LATB subscription in one hand.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

LATB has value if you are going to play in the games. Unlimited information on your opponents. The downside is the limited number of games being shown, mostly the NL stuff, no Omaha, no Stud, not much limit.

I liked it as a casual observer but that isn't enough for me to pay. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

By far it is the best 'live' event. As much as you might not like the announcers, they are far better live than anyone of the edited televised poker events. They call the cards right and have pretty good analysis of the game at hand and because it is live we see all the action, not the BS the editors want you to see.

The only real knock I have is the quality/reliability of the feed needs to be worked out before they start takes money from people.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
LATB has value if you are going to play in the games. Unlimited information on your opponents. The downside is the limited number of games being shown, mostly the NL stuff, no Omaha, no Stud, not much limit.


[/ QUOTE ]

They actually have a new table their using now that allows them to show omaha so I think that's in the works..
Stud would be pretty difficult to show given theres no community cards and only limited space on the monitor to show cards. The main reason they show NL Hold 'Em is because that's what's hot right now... If Omaha were the trend they would probably start showing more of that.
For $14.95 you really can't find a better value for the education gained from watching.
My big concern is that once their subscriber list stops growing that they will start to increase that monthly fee to allow for bigger promotions which they feel will bring in
a bigger base of viewers. I hope not because it's a great tool for learning the game and becoming a better player.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just saved $105 in a NL game at The Bike last night due to LATB. My ego wanted to call my opponent's all-in on the river but my rational mind kicked in and asked, "What can you beat?" (thx BarTuch).
I couldn't beat much and laid it down. My opponent showed 2pr...which I couldn't beat.

Just saved 7 months of LATB subscription in one hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really needed L@TB to learn that? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's funny, I thought $14.95 for the archives was well worth it, but this no way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to recap:

$14.95 for archives = good deal
$14.95 for archive + live shows = [censored]

Also, the Bicycle Casino doesn't make money from this - it's not their venture. They just get free advertising for hosting the games.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
I find it funny that they are charging $14.95 to watch average poker. A few nights out of the week can you even really call it poker? What did the Bicycle Casino need to make some residual income? Are Bart and Dave demanding to make higher wages, that the casino can't afford. I really enjoyed watching L@TB, but I will refuse to pay 14.95 a month for it. It's funny, I thought $14.95 for the archives was well worth it, but this no way.

I used to recommend the show to other players I knew, but this is a rip off now. No offense to Bart or Dave, but this sucks. Hopefully they will change it back.

Jon Pedersen

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm completely baffled--how can paying 15$/mo for the archives be worth it, but both combined are not worth it? as a few l@tb regular viewers have already posted on this thread, the ability to watch the show is well worth the fee that they are charging. to be perfectly honest, I was upset when I first found out that they were going to a subscription-only setup as well, but then I realized that the show a) had been planning on doing this from the start, b) will clearly make more money for the company which had invested in whatever hardware and software was necessary for the production of the show, and c) provides an amount of poker knowledge which I would argue is worth the fee as long as it is still improving your game. if I were running l@tb, I would most certainly make these changes as well, since it is clearly +EV for them. they will definitely get less viewers, but that is really inconsequential from a business standpoint. if you are really that outraged over the direction the show is taking, financially, just boycott it, don't watch it, find something else to do. I also would rather not pay to watch the show, but anything I pay for I would rather not pay for and complaining about it neither makes sense nor will cause it to revert to its old setup.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just saved $105 in a NL game at The Bike last night due to LATB. My ego wanted to call my opponent's all-in on the river but my rational mind kicked in and asked, "What can you beat?" (thx BarTuch).
I couldn't beat much and laid it down. My opponent showed 2pr...which I couldn't beat.

Just saved 7 months of LATB subscription in one hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really needed L@TB to learn that? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Tradesports has set the line at 8:2 for sarcasm.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

man this is [censored]

LATB is not like Howard Stern, people aren't just gonna shell out another ~$150-200/year to watch it

I already pay for sirius satellite so thats my peripheral entertainment costs for the month

LATB can go suck on their fathers cock for all I care, this is a terrible idea, viewership will exponentially decline, is there even a reason for 2+2 to host a thread anymore...

this is just stupd, and its bad business

Re: Live at the Bike
 

Have they ever considered putting this on actual TV? I'd imagine GSN would be interested in the hish limit games, especially if they put it in a crappy time slot, like 11-4 or something (could be delayed instead of live).

Re: Live at the Bike
 

There is an important thing that I don't think has been mentioned. The show was never really free at all. For as long as I remember there has been some sort of advertising on the show whether it be Poker Blue or the Poker Pads things. Whatever company that has been producing L@TB has been deriving income from all of these ads.

Also, I'm not sure if their business model is quite right. I mean an HBO package on your cable system may only cost a few bucks a month and they run 24 hours a day. Obviously, they have to charge more because they have fewer viewers. I think they'll see decreased viewership because of this change. It may be more profitable now but I doubt it's the best long term business decision.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
man this is [censored]

LATB is not like Howard Stern, people aren't just gonna shell out another ~$150-200/year to watch it

I already pay for sirius satellite so thats my peripheral entertainment costs for the month

LATB can go suck on their fathers cock for all I care, this is a terrible idea, viewership will exponentially decline, is there even a reason for 2+2 to host a thread anymore...

this is just stupd, and its bad business

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the viewers were already archives subscribers. Also stupd should be spelled stupid but thats cool. And if 200 is to much for a year are you sure you can afford to play poker?

Re: Live at the Bike
 

Damn, nobody is forcing you to watch, play or pay. If it means so little to you, why are you wasting your time complaining; avoid it, ignore the thread and go back to your micro limit games where you obviously feel more comfortable.

I have never seen so many people complain how insignificant the show is, how they never watch it, how it has no value, and they will not pay for it. Then why the [censored] are you here?

If you can'y scrape $15 worth of entertainment value out of the live shows or the archives, go back to masturbation...you are obviously a jerkoff

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
Damn, nobody is forcing you to watch, play or pay. If it means so little to you, why are you wasting your time complaining; avoid it, ignore the thread and go back to your micro limit games where you obviously feel more comfortable.

I have never seen so many people complain how insignificant the show is, how they never watch it, how it has no value, and they will not pay for it. Then why the [censored] are you here?

If you can'y scrape $15 worth of entertainment value out of the live shows or the archives, go back to masturbation...you are obviously a jerkoff

[/ QUOTE ]

Although after watching last night's show, BDub, one could make a claim that you could combine those two activities together. Wouldn't be surprised is Tuch was waxing the dolphin while Mr. Liz Lieu was conducting his interview about threesomes.

You'd think that the powers that be could spend some capital on a third headset in the booth for guests - especially with the Legends coming up. Maybe BDub can help out the 2+2 ers, get the headphones using the money he raked off C-Mike last Friday.

Go get em tonight BDub. Any idea if ATM Eddie, Zinjanthropus Erwin, or "Mysterious" Allan are gonna be on tonight? Can someone buy Allan a razor, he's looking more like Geraldo Rivera every day

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
Damn, nobody is forcing you to watch, play or pay.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is true.

[ QUOTE ]
If you can'y scrape $15 worth of entertainment value out of the live shows or the archives, go back to masturbation...you are obviously a jerkoff

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

Really, why should I pay $15/month to watch a 3-hour infomercial for the Bicycle Casino? I mean, seriously, wtf?

Re: Live at the Bike
 

I enjoyed the show maybe once a week when I had time. I have no desire to see past shows and such, and wouldn't considr paying for this.

It was fun while it lasted though.

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really, why should I pay $15/month to watch a 3-hour infomercial for the Bicycle Casino? I mean, seriously, wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you serious?

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really, why should I pay $15/month to watch a 3-hour infomercial for the Bicycle Casino? I mean, seriously, wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]


are you kidding me?

Re: Live at the Bike
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really, why should I pay $15/month to watch a 3-hour infomercial for the Bicycle Casino? I mean, seriously, wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

For reals, yo?