Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

PP NL 100

Gack. Villain 1, the CO, is 22/2 in 100 hands. He is TAG, but hasn't played any big pots of note. Villain 2, the Button, is a complete unknown; he has played one of his first ten hands.

Hero has $99, CO and Button cover.

Pre-flop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Folds to CO, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero raises to $6, BB folds, CO and Button call.

Flop: ($19) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets $15, CO calls, Button calls.
Hero is furious that these TAG-a-Donks both cold-called! Hero feels like lighting himself on fire. Hero notes that he respects CO enough to think CO would not call with a flush draw alone.

Turn: ($64) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Any significant bet traps us into a call for our whole stack. And checking sucks. Line...?

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

If they have trips they will call your push on the turn and surely laydown there draw. I like check turn - call reasonable bet on river. Think this is best line to have him make a mistake. This is one of those rare times where I think the free card is ok even with the incredible draw heavy board.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

He's not getting a free card here from the SB.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

Bumping it up for the morning crew.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

I freaking hate these spots....that being said. We know CO is relatively tight....so you have to put a set in his range...would have have limped SC's here even though nobody was in the pot...i'm leery of him. Button I discount somewhat because he's unknown...a draw is quite likely for him. Almost forgot....decent chance that CO has 88-99...maybe TT.

I probably say screw it and push the turn....that's probably not the best play though, but I like it more than checking and giving a free card on a majorly draw heavy board.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

Here's my lame advice:

Check-call the turn, donkbet the river. Freaky line, eh?

If you check the turn, it will look like your flop bet was a continuation and you just gave up on it. When this happens, your situation actually improves considerably: a significant turn bet from you only gets called when you're behind, but a check will induce bluffs from a much wider range of hands, and your odds of having money in the middle with the best of it increase dramatically.

If the action goes Hero checks, CO makes a significant bet, Button calls/folds, I could see a push making sense. At that point, any call commits you, so you might as well get your money in the pot before the draws miss. While I'm not *thrilled* with the situation, I think check/call or check/push the turn beats leading out for Hero. Your pot odds warrant the play, but you still might be rebuying more often than you'd prefer.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

This is definately a tough situation with such a small stack left. I would check and see what happens when they action gets back around. Fold to a bet and a raise obviously. Fold/push to a bet/call depending on read (i.e. bet and timing)

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you check the turn, it will look like your flop bet was a continuation and you just gave up on it. When this happens, your situation actually improves considerably: a significant turn bet from you only gets called when you're behind, but a check will induce bluffs from a much wider range of hands, and your odds of having money in the middle with the best of it increase dramatically.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best argument for checking. If Hero fires out $50, a drawing or worse hand won't call and a better hand won't fold. If Hero fires out 1/2 pot, a better hand won't fold, and a drawing hand might be content with the odds, especially with another player potentially coming along.

If Hero checks, a better hand will certainly bet, but a drawing hand or a hand like 66, 88, or 99 might see an opportunity to stab the pot and take it down.

Based on this argument, does checking the turn make the play +EV, assuming we call any bet made behind us? Or is giving a draw a free card so sickeningly bad that checking is still -EV?

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

this is probably the situation I hate the most, I probably prefer giving a free card to a possible flush draw, I think this is an easy fold if CO makes a decent sized bet.

Results
 

Wow. From three posters whom I respect very much, I've been advised to

1) Push turn
2) Check/fold turn
3) Check/raise all-in on the turn

This makes me feel much better about my confusion during the hand about the proper play... and I say this as no disrespect to any of the posters. All three arguments have merit! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Results: Hero checked turn with intention of evaluating CO's action; CO bet $50 into a pot of $65, Button folded, Hero decided to fold, given that CO appeared to be betting to cut down any draws. CO showed off his slot machine, but Hero is still wondering if check/pushing was the higher EV play, or if leading was the best option of all. Hmph.

Re: Results
 

well played.....really a tough spot and you made the right read.

I'm not sure there is a huge EV differential between any of the things suggested...a lot of the time this is something you beat, and a lot of the time it isn't.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

Tough spot, We have to feel CO could be on AA KK or a set 77, 55, on the other hand, why let a free card go for a diamond on the river???

I have to bite the bullet here and bet $40

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

This is a fantastic Question,

I've heard several argue against a better hand will only call your lead out, while I believe that is true, WE HAVE TO CONSIDER 7,6 diamonds or 8,7 diamonds or 10,9 diamonds any two diamonds that might of gotten involved pf. I DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE HANDS A FREE CARD!

Checking is unacceptable to me.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tough spot, We have to feel CO could be on AA KK or a set 77, 55, on the other hand, why let a free card go for a diamond on the river???

[/ QUOTE ]

Thunder, I'm pretty confident that CO would not open limp/call with AA or KK. What makes you think those hands are in his range?

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a fantastic Question,

I've heard several argue against a better hand will only call your lead out, while I believe that is true, WE HAVE TO CONSIDER 7,6 diamonds or 8,7 diamonds or 10,9 diamonds any two diamonds that might of gotten involved pf. I DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE HANDS A FREE CARD!

Checking is unacceptable to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's no way these guys have AA or KK, no way. And we want to deal with hand ranges, not hands here. If you give a free card, to bad, but if you don't give a free card you're stacked 100%. As I said I'd rather check and fold to a bet from CO or push a bet from the button.

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

epdaws, looking at it again, I suppose AA or KK are unlikely HOWEVER I'm down over $400 in the last 2 weeks because I told myself, no way this guy limped with AA or KK...

Talking to "fish" I've found a player who doesn't know any better their natural reaction is to "just call" with a great hand and keep as many players in the hand as possible they don't know enough to know it's no good to do so.

Honestly at $100NL, you have to figure people are morons and they could be calling you with anything QQ are an overpair to this board I have to bet on the turn.

checking the turn I don't like, and I just thought of this one, I really don't like giving A,K diamonds a free look at the river, even if they don't hit their diamond they have 6 more outs

Re: Cold Calling Makes Me Gag. Seriously.
 

I bet $40.

As others said, I feel checking is unacceptable. But you want to make a bet that others would bve incorrect to call. A push will only encourage a correct fold - not an incorrect call. I know betting 40 leaves you with less than the pot behind, but that actually makes it more incorrect for the opponents to call. I bet 40 now, and the rest of my chips at the next opportunity. I then pray & prepare to reload.