Downswings....
 

Playing 400NL, Im down 9 buy ins since the start of June!!!. Its not the amount that has me freaking it's the length of time, I don't even remember what a cashout is like. Although I don't play as many hands as most people in here, and there is a good sized break mixed in there b/c I was running so cold. But I would say I have lost $3500 in 15k-20k hands.

Its been vicious, I keep thinking I'm back on solid footing and then the bottom falls out. Its out of control.

Anyway, my question is..can this be attributed to varience? Should I just keep playing and try and ride it out? How much longer can it last? Should I question whether I am a winning player? I have been playing for about 11 months, and never experienced anything even 1/3 as bad as this (again im talking over the amount of hands played, not so much BB's lost)...Anything to help me understand/deal with this is much appreciated

Re: Downswings....
 

is that avitar really u?

Re: Downswings....
 

15k-20k hands is NOTHING

Re: Downswings....
 

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15k-20k hands is NOTHING

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I don't think I've ever seen a 15k hand downswing at NL, from my stats or anyone I know.

Re: Downswings....
 

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15k-20k hands is NOTHING

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I don't think I've ever seen a 15k hand downswing at NL, from my stats or anyone I know.

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HA HA HA HA.

Oh - you weren't being funny.

OP, 15K-20K DS is fairly standard - but I'd suggest reviewing your biggest losses and posting difficult hands on the board.

Re: Downswings....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
15k-20k hands is NOTHING

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I don't think I've ever seen a 15k hand downswing at NL, from my stats or anyone I know.

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Can't tell if you're being serious here, I hope not.


i.e. you're in for a rude awakening if not

Re: Downswings....
 

Give us more information.

Do you play full ring of 6 max? This is important as swings & variance are much greater in 6 max.

Do you play an aggressive style, or are you a FR, set mining nit?

Dropping 9 buys in 15K hands is nothing major, especially if you play 6 max.

I suggest you post a couple of key hands in some recent sessions and gain some feedback to discover if you have any major leaks.

Re: Downswings....
 

I won 7 buyins at 5/10 earlier today.

I lost 7 buyins at 5/10 tonight.

It's awesome.

Re: Downswings....
 

9 buy ins isnt really a terrible downswing...

Re: Downswings....
 

I feel ya OP, being in a downswing myself just sucks. I thought I was good at poker?

Re: Downswings....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
15k-20k hands is NOTHING

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I don't think I've ever seen a 15k hand downswing at NL, from my stats or anyone I know.

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hahahha.

Re: Downswings....
 

What's a downswing?

Re: Downswings....
 

I hit a downswing when I was playing draws aggressive at hell at NL 200 and getting called by top pair. Lately I have fought variance and played draws nittier and when I miss I check/fold and when I hit a raise/push all in and still get called by top pair.

The real question is, how terrible is it to play draws nitty at NL 200? You rarely get top pair to fold (in fear of you having a set, better kicker, two pair,etc.)

At higher levels I like these aggressive plays to some who wont go broke with top pair...

sorry, just rambling.

Re: Downswings....
 

Im not exactly on a downswing but 20k hands of break even poker is annoying the hell outa me as well. win 4 buyins, drop 3 , win 2, drop 3, etc. I suck! WR of .46 PTBB

Re: Downswings....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hit a downswing when I was playing draws aggressive at hell at NL 200 and getting called by top pair. Lately I have fought variance and played draws nittier and when I miss I check/fold and when I hit a raise/push all in and still get called by top pair.

The real question is, how terrible is it to play draws nitty at NL 200? You rarely get top pair to fold (in fear of you having a set, better kicker, two pair,etc.)

At higher levels I like these aggressive plays to some who wont go broke with top pair...

sorry, just rambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kinda happened to me in April/May. I was playing draws and other such hands too aggressively. Granted I was also experimenting w/ certain plays. I played an assload of hands (like 40,000) and basically won like 2ptbb/hr or something like that. This was 3-4 tabling.

June:I started 5 tabling. I played nittier in certain spots pf and post flop, yet keeping my VPIP/PFR where I want it. I have been killing it since. Not to factor out the fact my game improved dramatically since then. But yeah, variance is gonna be there. Just analyze where your money is going.

Controlling tilt and table selection was a HUGE factor on my good run.

And 4-6 buy in downswings in like an hour of play were not uncommon.

This was all at $200nl

Re: Downswings....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hit a downswing when I was playing draws aggressive at hell at NL 200 and getting called by top pair. Lately I have fought variance and played draws nittier and when I miss I check/fold and when I hit a raise/push all in and still get called by top pair.

The real question is, how terrible is it to play draws nitty at NL 200? You rarely get top pair to fold (in fear of you having a set, better kicker, two pair,etc.)

At higher levels I like these aggressive plays to some who wont go broke with top pair...

sorry, just rambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kinda happened to me in April/May. I was playing draws and other such hands too aggressively. Granted I was also experimenting w/ certain plays. I played an assload of hands (like 40,000) and basically won like 2ptbb/hr or something like that. This was 3-4 tabling.

June:I started 5 tabling. I played nittier in certain spots pf and post flop, yet keeping my VPIP/PFR where I want it. I have been killing it since. Not to factor out the fact my game improved dramatically since then. But yeah, variance is gonna be there. Just analyze where your money is going.

Controlling tilt and table selection was a HUGE factor on my good run.

And 4-6 buy in downswings in like an hour of play were not uncommon.

This was all at $200nl

[/ QUOTE ]

great avatar....hey peter hows it going. hmmmmm im gonan need you to come in tomorrow, we need to catch up on some work....mmm kay....thanks a bunch

Re: Downswings....
 

I had a 20 bi downswing this month (10 at 3/6 and 10 at 2/4) and just now recovered. The downswing happened over a 8-10k hand stretch and ive played around 9k since then or so and am back to where i was on like the 4th of the month.

One thing that helped me was to just import hands and not have my "Ring Game Stats" up so that I couldn;t check if I wsa up/down or whatever. This made it easier for me to think about each hand individually. ALso make sure that you are not thinking about trying to "get even" and just treat each session separately.

Re: Downswings....
 

if ure getting stackd in a lot over overpair v set situations that are basically impossible to get away from, then w/e... 7 or 8 of those could easily happen in 15k hands, just chill out and keep grinding it out...

you could also move down a limit and beat on some worse players to get ure confidence up (which is what the issue sounds like)

Re: Downswings....
 

i had a ~7k downswing at 400nl FR over a 2.5 week span of ~25k hands...that wasn't fun. Worst part was, i was running the worst i ever had in my life and playing the highest volume of hands i ever had at the same time...this is a terrible combo (simple right?...not when you're losing). Best thing to do...at least for me, was to read a lot of 2+2 and post hands, i made a couple very minor adjustments, like getting better value out of big hands and other stuff and it helped a lot. I also tried to take some time off from poker (read: 3 days off maybe [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), this helped to just clear my head and refocus. I also tried playing some STT's for a little while just to change pace and get my mind off nl cash games, i think playing only one game can really burn you out and it gets really boring playing 2.5k+ hands of one game everyday.

Re: Downswings....
 

I had a 20 buy-in downswing yesterday

Re: Downswings....
 

i had a 19k hand breakeven stretch earlier this year.

currently, i need to recover 2 more buyins before im out of my current downswing, which has lasted 7k hands.

this is when poker is not fun.

Re: Downswings....
 

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15k-20k hands is NOTHING

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I don't think I've ever seen a 15k hand downswing at NL, from my stats or anyone I know.

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wow

Re: Downswings....
 

it may never end. i'm now breaking even over 35k hands. ie- went up 7k in a week and then lost 7k over the past 3 weeks. poker sucks, just enjoy your life and it won't bother you.

Re: Downswings....
 

I'm no expert by any means, and I'm not playing at the level you're playing at, but what I would suggest is that you seriously review HOW you're playing. Start recording, either using a statistical program or writing it down; but really start tracking what starting hands you're playing, your post flop play, etc. If you're getting down to where it's starting to get to shorthanded play, start looking at how you're playing that way. It's entirely possible that you're playing too conservative. Start reviewing articles on playing shorthanded, heads up, etc. Really start examining how and what you're playing, in a short time you should see some patterns start forming and that should help. Hope that helps.

Re: Downswings....
 

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it may never end. i'm now breaking even over 35k hands. ie- went up 7k in a week and then lost 7k over the past 3 weeks. poker sucks, just enjoy your life and it won't bother you.

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I'm right now in 70k hands of breakeven poker.

Re: Downswings....
 

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But I would say I have lost $3500 in 15k-20k hands.

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Get lost.

Re: Downswings....
 

[ QUOTE ]
15k-20k hands is NOTHING

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I don't think I've ever seen a 15k hand downswing at NL, from my stats or anyone I know.

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Jigglers, most of your post are good, but this is just...dumb. Unless your being sarcastic, in which case, brilliant!

Re: Downswings....
 

What is tough about folding overpairs or any pair for that matter? With a pair, I'm more interested in protecting my stack than adding to it. For me, there are very few hands that I can't away from.

Re: Downswings....
 

Downswings are like economic recessions. They are going to happen and you have to deal with it. I would like to think that they are healthy. When you are rolling good you can get a false sense of security and develop bad habits which become costly later. When this happens, it forces you to question your game and analyze your play. In my case, I found that I was calling off too many big raises. I had hands that are supposed to win and I was underestimating the villian. If the villian is trying to tell me that he has the best hand, now I listen.

It is tough to maintain confidence during losing streaks. But,losing confidence is a major tilt. I would not consider moving to a lower level to regain confidence. This would have the same effect as buying high and selling low in stock market, although the application is reversed. You would in effect be paying more for your losing streak than a winning streak at lower limits would hope to recover. If your bankroll is adaquate, keep plugging at the same level. You regain confidence one hand or one session at a time.

Re: Downswings....
 

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I would not consider moving to a lower level to regain confidence. This would have the same effect as buying high and selling low in stock market, although the application is reversed. You would in effect be paying more for your losing streak than a winning streak at lower limits would hope to recover. If your bankroll is adaquate, keep plugging at the same level.

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Never really thought of it this way, and it's kind of true in a lot of cases.

Re: Downswings....
 

WTF kind of mother Fing BBV thread is this Fing BS? Jesus Fing Christ.

Take it to GD MSNL for the love of F. Are all the mods Fing dead?

F.

Re: Downswings....
 

i think it might have been in MSNL and it was moved. i think when i posted it was in the MSNL forum.