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- - Gosh darn river (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=161008)

READS: None. Less than 20 hands on table. Villain and I have done nothing of note.

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($61.30)
Hero ($51.80)
MP ($10.35)
Button ($113.25)
SB ($143.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $2, Hero raises to $10, Button folds, BB calls $8.

Turn: ($26.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Checking behind for pot control...should I fire a second barrel here?

River: ($26.25) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $25

[censored], right? I'm behind a set and KJ. Call/fold/raise?

Re: Gosh darn river

Folding that river is absolutely awful. Seriously disgustingly bad.

If you called the river I quite like your line. If you folded YSSCQP

Re: Gosh darn river

The board's pretty wet, so I'd bet that turn.

As played, I'm definitely calling that river. Because you checked the turn, that increases the range of hands he'll do this with.

Re: Gosh darn river

[ QUOTE ]
If you called the river I quite like your line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious, what should I be thinking in these turn situations when trying for pot control vs. protecting my hand against draws? What about the hand is making you think that, in this case, pot control > protecting against draws?

Re: Gosh darn river

Why check the turn? Giving the villian a free card to draw at straight or flush? With TPTK I potting the turn or 4/5 of the pot. With top two pair on the river I'm calling villian's bet.

Re: Gosh darn river

i call this river - you'll see AJ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]/AK a bunch of the time.

how would you play the hand if a club fell on the river?

Re: Gosh darn river

[ QUOTE ]
Folding that river is absolutely awful. Seriously disgustingly bad.

If you called the river I quite like your line. If you folded YSSCQP

[/ QUOTE ]

whats YSSCQP?

Re: Gosh darn river

Turn: Why not bet the rag? Pot-control on a draw heavy board? It's about losing control of the pot if the club hits.

I call and let him turn over the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Re: Gosh darn river

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Folding that river is absolutely awful. Seriously disgustingly bad.

If you called the river I quite like your line. If you folded YSSCQP

[/ QUOTE ]

whats YSSCQP?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm guessing You Should Seriously Contemplate Quitting Poker

Re: Gosh darn river

ur turn check is pretty average...u have to call this river bet.

Re: Gosh darn river

Mikey: Wow, Bet the turn man. Value and protection. As played, call river.

Re: Gosh darn river

The combination of checking the turn and the Ad hitting on the river makes this a tougher spot than it should be. Its a great card for Villian to take a stab at the pot with. I'd throw $18-$20 out on the turn. As played, I call river anyway.

Re: Gosh darn river

$16 seems like a good price on the turn.

Re: Gosh darn river

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you called the river I quite like your line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious, what should I be thinking in these turn situations when trying for pot control vs. protecting my hand against draws? What about the hand is making you think that, in this case, pot control > protecting against draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends. Against bluffy players who can lay down a flush draw to a decent bet on the turn, checking MAY have more value.

But here's the thing: by checking this turn, you are giving players a green light to bluff the river. This means that you pretty much have to pay off a flush that gets there. This, in turn means they were correct to call the flop.

There's a section in NLHTP that states that whenever you are committed to paying off a draw when it hits, you are better off betting to price the draw out.

Now, if you had JJ here, or something where you might call a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river bet, but could often fold to a big river bet, then checking to pick off a bluff may well be better. But your hand has too much value to just fold to a bet on the river, which means that when you check the turn, you are always going to be paying off the flush, and it's better to bet now. If you bet now, and are called, you can usually very safely fold a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river big bet.

Plus, it's seriously sexy to bet-turn-check-behind on a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river and see Villain's whiffed check-raise.

As to the hand in question, this is a flush draw that paired it's A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] a lot. I'd seriously consider raising here, but you have to at least call. This is absolutely not a bad river card for you, and the fact that you think it is suggests some results-oriented thinking (i.e. it sounds like you payed off KJ here and wondered if it was wrong, so you decided to post it).