KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

Vilain sees flop 29% of the time and his PF raise is about 10%.

You call or fold ?? and why?


Vilain as 350, Hero covers and SB

6 Folds
Vilain raise to 8$
I reraise to 25$ with KK
He push for 350.???

You call or fold??

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

fold

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

Fold

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

Without a read, I call this everytime. People happily push QQ and AK here as well.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

HOW MANY HANDS is absoutely essential. If he has more than 250 hands I call and less than 250.. damnit...I call. I expect to see AK here.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

common sense says fold, but I have seen this with QQ & AK so much that you might want to call. He might be sick of you reraising, or view it as a steal, or think QQ/AK is the nuts... etc.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

call, you see aa < 50% here

he probably thinks youre restealing from him and pushes with jj qq ak aa

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

I call. I see this kind of move all the time at these stakes and it really screams AK. It is rare IMO to find a player that would make a large overbet with AA here. Id honestly be more scared if we got repopped the pot. That being said, having 175 BB makes this decision interesting.

Some things can influence my willingness to call here though.

Have you been reraising him a lot prior to this hand? If thats the case then he might be fed up with you. If you havent reraised someone ever, he might put you on a very strong hand and think that youll call his overbet, which means he could have AA.

How has this person been playing? His stats dont tell us a whole lot especially if its a small sample size. Has he made any BIG mistakes?

You usually just have to go with your read here. If you think this person is capable of making this move with AA (I doubt he is) than fold.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

Peoples... villains are not pushing 1,75 buyins over the top without the nuts. Most likely does he take this route because he is uncomfortable playing for such a big stack with just one pair, where it can be hard to distinguish hero's overpair from a set on a board like 4TJ.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

He's opening from the button? Call.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

live? fold. online? call.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Peoples... villains are not pushing 1,75 buyins over the top without the nuts. Most likely does he take this route because he is uncomfortable playing for such a big stack with just one pair, where it can be hard to distinguish hero's overpair from a set on a board like 4TJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are giving people way too much credit that push preflop at 1-2. Also, people are more likely to rerase smaller with AA and look for action whereas they love to push AK "because its best when it sees all 5 cards" and they have FE (wheather they know it or not).

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Peoples... villains are not pushing 1,75 buyins over the top without the nuts. Most likely does he take this route because he is uncomfortable playing for such a big stack with just one pair, where it can be hard to distinguish hero's overpair from a set on a board like 4TJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is dead on. Maybe 6-8 months ago this would be a call, but preflop at 1/2 - 3/6 has tightened up massively unless the guy is a total moron. Against your avg. player now, no one is moving all in without KK or AA and people are folding KK a lot more in these situations as a result.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

If he can have AK here I call, if he can have AK and QQ here I definately call.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

if he can have AK here I fold.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

I have not many history with him, only 100 hands.

He seems not to be out of line so far.

On this talbe I was very quiet and double up with set over set 30 hands ago

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

how many people at the table total? 6, 8 10? Makes a big difference, 6 handed easy call, 10 handed I think I fold.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

6 folds , button raise I reraise in SB

Please read the post. That means 9

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
6 folds , button raise I reraise in SB

Please read the post. That means 9

[/ QUOTE ]

How the [censored] and I supposed to know hes button. Your format sucks, is hard to understand, and your question sucks. I replied nicely, gave you good advice when this is such a standard question, and you respond like an ass.

WAY TO GO!

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

You're not suppose tu konw that he'es the button but If you read all the post you'll see that they are 6 fold + 2 blinds + the guy who raie = 9

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

its all about whether or not he could have AK and QQ here. do the math accordingly

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

threads like this happen like twice a day, call and it's not close. think about all the times this happens and you see some bs hand you dominate...

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Peoples... villains are not pushing 1,75 buyins over the top without the nuts. Most likely does he take this route because he is uncomfortable playing for such a big stack with just one pair, where it can be hard to distinguish hero's overpair from a set on a board like 4TJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is dead on. Maybe 6-8 months ago this would be a call, but preflop at 1/2 - 3/6 has tightened up massively unless the guy is a total moron. Against your avg. player now, no one is moving all in without KK or AA and people are folding KK a lot more in these situations as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

Hey, if he has AA then you're f'd unless you get lucky on the flop. Otherwise, it's a no brainer! You absolutely call!!!!!

Resulta
 

The guy had AA and lost 175BB to him preflop...

Re: Resulta
 

If villan isn't an idiot, I fold easy... 175bb is alot, and most people won't shove that much without the nutz..

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
threads like this happen like twice a day, call and it's not close. think about all the times this happens and you see some bs hand you dominate...

[/ QUOTE ]

its different when stacks are deeper than 100bb. its definitely not an obvious call.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
threads like this happen like twice a day, call and it's not close. think about all the times this happens and you see some bs hand you dominate...

[/ QUOTE ]

its different when stacks are deeper than 100bb. its definitely not an obvious call.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea my bad didn't realize it was 4bb raised to 12.5bb re-raised to 175bb. unless villain is a total maniac here i don't call with anything but aa. terrible risk reward, so basically the opposite of what i said in my first post.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

A guy raising preflop 10 percent of the time is VERY unlikely to be raisng to 300 with A/K Very unlikely

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

if neither of you're are doing anything out of line, i think this is a fold.

all those saying this could be QQ, this is QQ 0% of the time. this is AA that don't want to 4bet and give away their hand so you play perfectly postflop, and also doesn't want to just call and play one pair postflop with so much money behind, so he pushes, figuring hero might call with the premium hand he repped with the 3 bet.

the hands you beat here are AK and random trash, but if you are 3betting with a tight range and he is playing normal, then trash doesn't make sense here.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

i've never folded KK preflop, and i've also never faced this situation this deep. many people are not afraid to play postflop and would rather let KK hang himself.

for all the people who say call, i'd love to see some hand history examples where you've called here and been shown less than AA, deeper than 150BBs.

Re: KK Vs an all-in bet PF Deep Stack 1-2NL
 

Tonight KK vs AA 4 times, I didnt fold any [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img], reallllly wish I could let go.