35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

100bb stacks, no reads, i have been playing my usual shorthanded lag-way, nothing extreme.

all fold, raise to 35$ in CO with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB calls

flop: (80$) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

he check i check

turn:(80$) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He bets 45, i raise to 135, he raises to 315

I ?

Re: 35s makes twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

all you beat is a goofily-played aa/kk. judge for yourself how likely that is.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

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he check i check

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What were you doing? Slowplaying and trapping with bottom pair? You raised pre, have position and got a piece of the board. By checking you forfeited your ability to take down a small pot uncontested and to have a better read on his hand. If you aren't going to bet the flop in those situations then you should just fold those hands or don't raise with them.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

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I ?

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SHOVE.

BTW/like that flop check.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

I def agree w/ F_V. Flop check is fine (don't get why anyone would argue against that), and I shove on turn here as well most likely.

You checked flop and raised on a blank 5. Most of the time he's gonna figure you for exactly 55 or air, and his 3-bet could very well be air/light here, even a T sometimes and definately overpairs being possible. If you call I think he will shutdown w/ a lot (since it's clear you have something), but a shove just might get called if he doesn't believe you. Also a lot of cards would probably kill your action from a lot of his hands if you just called.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

this makes no sense. flop check is good, no doubt about it.

ps. i would take this to the feeeeeeeeelt

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

I prob fold to his turn 3 bet.

How likely is he to think you are to check flop with overcards, then raise his turn bet? His turn action then is not a draw, he obviously doesnt play J9 like this, so he's either got monster or air. I guess if you going to continue, call turn 3 bet and hope he fires again on river.

But again, I fold to turn action. Also, I'm betting flop.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

Flop check is fine, personally I bet but check occasionally to mix it up. If turn comes 9 and he leads, I gotta fold, so I prefer betting, have some KT hand call, and then I get to play in posiiton and only put more money in when beat.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

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all you beat is a goofily-played aa/kk. judge for yourself how likely that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is a pretty bad way to think of this hand. I think you can beat a lot of hands that might play this way, like a ten, a semibluff draw, blah blah.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

I like call/call much better than pushing here.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
all you beat is a goofily-played aa/kk. judge for yourself how likely that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is a pretty bad way to think of this hand. I think you can beat a lot of hands that might play this way, like a ten, a semibluff draw, blah blah.

[/ QUOTE ]

i rarely get action from a ten or a semibluff that looks like this.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

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I like call/call much better than pushing here.

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I hate pushing with bottom 2 here, but as played it seems just slightly better than folding. I would be surprised if you were ahead here very often at all if it all goes in the middle.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
all you beat is a goofily-played aa/kk. judge for yourself how likely that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is a pretty bad way to think of this hand. I think you can beat a lot of hands that might play this way, like a ten, a semibluff draw, blah blah.

[/ QUOTE ]

also, since there's no draw with more than 8 outs here, its a really bad time to semibluff small with a draw, because if hero pushes then the draw has to fold.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

Yah gman, "slightly better than folding". Isn't that the understatement of the century.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

i guess arguing about what bottom 2 pair is worth is a dumb thing to do. what a hand is worth is obivously directly related to your image at the table more than some absolute quantity. in the world I play in most of the time, the way the action went down this hand is definitely not always a hand that has you drawing dead if all the money goes in. but if you are a 13/3 nit then I suppose bottom set is a v easy fold on this board.

I like call/call versus a good player, one that will fire again on the river. Versus the type that will never bluff this river, I like putting my money in on the turn.

Re: 35s makes bottom twopair on PP 5-10 6max
 

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Yah gman, "slightly better than folding". Isn't that the understatement of the century.

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Although i agree as played moving in is the optimal play, I really don't despise folding either. Like I said, if he does call our push, we are in trouble a high % of the time. As whitelime said I think call/call is best and I don't think its all that close.