How did YOU get good?
 

Hi All,

I am very interested as to the methods that others have used to improve their game. I have read all three HOH books, and everything written by Slansky. I have also read TJ Cloutier and Super System.

Simply by applying the concepts and playing by the "book", I can beat the low levels, but I am not sure what to do next? My current strategy is just to play a lot and build up experience, but that seems pretty slow, and I am afraid that I amy be practicing bad habits oblivious to potential leaks.

I would love to hear how others stepped up their game from information. I welcome the comments of professionals and amatuers alike. I have a long way to go.

Thanks,

L-

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Study
Play
Repeat

Study
Play
Repeat

Study
Play
Repeat

How Do You Get to Carnegie Hall?
 

Practice

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi All,

I am very interested as to the methods that others have used to improve their game. I have read all three HOH books, and everything written by Slansky. I have also read TJ Cloutier and Super System.

Simply by applying the concepts and playing by the "book", I can beat the low levels, but I am not sure what to do next? My current strategy is just to play a lot and build up experience, but that seems pretty slow, and I am afraid that I amy be practicing bad habits oblivious to potential leaks.

I would love to hear how others stepped up their game from information. I welcome the comments of professionals and amatuers alike. I have a long way to go.

Thanks,

L-

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Good? Good? I am still learning too....paying my dues...taking suckouts in stride (cough cough). Just play your game and try not to let people in your head....

Matt

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

I play poker a lot, and that is the way to learn. i may be new to this site, but ive been reading it for a long time, and i can definitely tell you experience is the best teacher.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Play, Play, and Play some more!!!! I read everything you have and more and there are plenty of other books I still want to read, but the books are only guides or tools, experience is best, that will teach you how to apply the concepts you read. If you had someone who never played read every book in the world, I think that they'd still lose to a pro due to lack of experience. Play Play Play...you have to remember that bad beats are going to happen to you and you have to play long enough to let the percentages prevail when you've got the best of it.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

[ QUOTE ]

POST
Study
Play
Repeat

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Write down the mistakes you felt during the game, where u could've lost less or won more. Study these leaks when you've finished the session and learn from them. Repeat ad infinitum.

Re: How Do You Get to Carnegie Hall?
 

Don't forget that approximately 90% of all that are playing are losing in the long run. Hopefully your not one of them. Good luck!

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Study
Play
Repeat

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

I'm still waiting to get good.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

The only way to improve is to play poker. You can become a top player by playing and never reading, but you'll never get there by reading and not playing, as others have mentioned. I play mostly NL games. I think that it is great to read poker books, and I read a lot of them. But, to improve, you've also got to take risks. I don't know if you've played a lot of NL games, but NL is very much an implied odds game - it lends itself to profitable non-by-the -book play. Experience allows you to be more creative in how you play. What I do is set an hourly rate goal for each blind level I play. So for you, if you're playing .25/.50 NL, the goal might be to make $10 per hour (the goal is kind of arbitrary, and can be revised). I then play until I can make my goal with 300 hour minimum of play time.

What I found playing this way is that playing tight doesn't cut it. To make my goals I've got to play looser and more aggressive. I've got to make a lot of moves and put opponents to the test. And I get busted all the time. But after some time you get a 'feel' for the game that the authors can't relate to you through texts. Or sometimes they say things that you don't understand until you've got more experience. I remember the first time I read Super/System I thought it was garbage. But now I think it is the best book on NL hold'em. (although I haven't read Sklansky's new NLHE book yet)

Don't be afraid to go broke. Get busted, let your opponents think you're an idiot, and find out what works.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

play lots of hands and see lots of situations and remember them and amalyze after

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

You probably need help figuring out the opponents exact holding.

Try this hand: There is a tight player who has a good grasp of the trouble with trouble hands and fears you since you usually have a good hand but are willing to go out on a limb. You raise early and he calls as does the blind. Flop is A63 rainbow. Blind checks, you bet, tight player calls.

What's he got? Well, he'd reraise with AK, won't call a raise with a small pocket pair, won't call an early raise with AT, will probably raise the flop with AQ. This player has AJ.

Have you ever put a player on a hand so precisely so early in the hand?

First off you need to see the continuity of the hand; in your case this simply means remembering what's happended so far. (Early poker programs had no sense of continuity; the'd call the 3-bet on the turn with a K-high flush, then raise again on the river having forgotten the opponent has the A flush). Start jotting down just enough information about interesting hands such that you can reconstruct them accuratly after the session; perhaps intending to post them here. After you can force yourself to remember what's happened you'll need to keep practicing it such that the continuity of the hand is recalled without any effort.

2nd off, you need to start making deductions of their holdings. The first place to start is to pretend the guost of poker-future is watching you play and is trying to deduce what you've got by your actions. So you raised early, tight player called and did the blind. Flop is A63. You bet, tight player called, blind folded. Turn is 3. You bet... [1] Can you tell me all the possible hands you may have that will cause you to have acted as you did in this spot? AK, AQ, AJ, what about QQ? 99? [2] What does it look like you've got from the tight player's perspective? What does he actually THINK you've got?

Don't make the mistake of presuming the opponents will correctly deduce your likely holdings. YOU may know you'd never bet 99 in that spot but the opponent's don't know that.

- Louie

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

I've read most of the responses here and I think it is all very good advise. Let me see if I can add to it:

First, you are a good player. You enjoy what you are doing and you win most of the time. That defines success.

Second, try new ideas. Decide to play 6 4 from late position when a player in early position has raised. The books tell you how to play tight and aggressive. They don't really tell you how to play when you KNOW what the other guy has.

In fact, one of the most important skills in poker is to be able to determine what the other guy has and would he be willing to let go of it in the right circumstances.

Oh, and know when to walk away and know when to run. You never count your money when...

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

with experiance you get a feel a .. sort of flow.. you have been here before you have played this situation a hundred times before you know what he has, you play the player and not the hand

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

go broke 3 or 4 times

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

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The only way to improve is to play poker.

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And understand why you're winning or losing. Then learn from it and apply those lessons in game.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Pay attention at all times. Poker can be very boring as you muck hand after hand. Watch the other players while you are out of the hand - what do they raise with? what do they call with? will they fold to a check-raise? etc, etc.

Online, take notes. There is nothing more satisfying than finding a donk that you read like a cheap paperback and taking his chips with value bets on river, semi-bluffs, etc.

Re: How Do You Get to Carnegie Hall?
 

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Don't forget that approximately 90% of all that are playing are losing in the long run. Hopefully your not one of them. Good luck!

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It's more like 60%.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Have played 1.2 million hands.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Here is a solution that has worked great for me in the past.
When looking at your past sessions, calc it this way:

#1 When you just break even, consider it a winning session.
#2 When you actualy won a few bucks, consider it a large win.
#3 When you have lost a bit, consider it as a break-even.
#4 If you take a huge loss, consider it as a small loss.
#5 When you really bust the bank, tally it as just Bad-Beats.

Re: How Do You Get to Carnegie Hall?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that approximately 90% of all that are playing are losing in the long run. Hopefully your not one of them. Good luck!

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It's more like 60%.

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I've always heard 90% lose in the long run too. 60% seems low.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

personally i am a very bad poker player, i beat the games that i play, but am far from good thus i spend many hours studying and reading i have leaks and often times fail to stop and think when im grinding out a small win. imho their is no quick fix, countless hours of play adhearing to books or otherwise learned good habits is the only way to eventually be able to call yourself good

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

Just take in as much information as you can and apply it in the best way you can think of, find out the tricks that work for you as an individual and use them.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

I would guess that >90% of good players have selective memories.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re.: Don't be scared to go bust

Who is the better player? The extremely knowledgeable player swimming with the sharks and
achieving marginal results or the less skilled player following and jealously guarding a bankroll, regularly drawing but playing smaller tables?

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only way to improve is to play poker. You can become a top player by playing and never reading, but you'll never get there by reading and not playing, as others have mentioned. I play mostly NL games. I think that it is great to read poker books, and I read a lot of them. But, to improve, you've also got to take risks. I don't know if you've played a lot of NL games, but NL is very much an implied odds game - it lends itself to profitable non-by-the -book play. Experience allows you to be more creative in how you play. . .

I remember the first time I read Super/System I thought it was garbage. But now I think it is the best book on NL hold'em. (although I haven't read Sklansky's new NLHE book yet)



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I would definitely recommend the Sklansky/Miller book. I am not discounting SuperSystem (I have that book too), but I think you will find this book to be better. I am halfway through it and I do have to re-read sections of it, and as I am a recovering limit player, I have gotten some great insight to the NL game.

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

I read, post hands, review hands, and play play play. Also, poker tracker is a good tool to have to spot a few leaks in your game

Re: How did YOU get good?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I read, post hands, review hands, and play play play. Also, poker tracker is a good tool to have to spot a few leaks in your game

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You have five posts.

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Re: How did YOU get good?
 

I have an additional Idea:

You could take a database from a good winning player and review all of his sessions.

Perhaps it is easier to adapt the style of a good player than create your own playing style.

I consider to purchase a database from a damn good player(Stoxtrader).
What do you think about that kind of training?