Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

What is the deal with Adam Dunn? Do you guys realize that he's only had 2 seasons with a BA above .250? I mean yea, batting average is kind of a hollow stat, but < .250 is another thing entirely. He strikes out a ton, but he also walks a ton, and hits a ton of homers, which boosts his OBP and SLG, which put altogether adds up to a career OPS of .904. And a career BA of .247. The fact that he walks so much tells me that he has a pretty good grasp of the strike zone, and isn't just blindly taking monster whacks at everything. But god... And he's not just homers either. He'll hit about 30 doubles a year as well. So what's the problem? With his .900+ career OPS, he's a good hitter, but if he could get his BA even up to, say, .280, he'd be a real force at the plate, and probably drive in a ton more runs too.

I think Adam Dunn is the most unique hitter in baseball right now. Granted I'm pretty young and don't know a lot of baseball history, but I don't know who I could even compare him to all-time, much less active. Maybe Rob Deer? But even then, Deer's power wasn't like Dunn's, and his OBP wasn't anywhere close either.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

He's very selective when he swings, and when he swings he swings very hard. Thus, he has a low batting average, lots of strikeouts, and is a fantastic hitter.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

Because he thinks he is a Thursday night beer league softball player.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

Interesting fact :

Adam Dunn has a higher Career On-Base Percentage than Ichiro.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting fact :

Adam Dunn has a higher Career On-Base Percentage than Ichiro.

[/ QUOTE ]

There ya go! Adam Dunn must be a better leadoff hitter!

(How again was Joe Morgan wrong...?)

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

Hey don't get me wrong, he's a great hitter. But if he could manage a few more hits here and there, his BA would go up, his RBI's would go up, and he'd be an elite hitter.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

I'm pretty sure if he could get his BA up without sacrificing his power and walks, he would have already.

And he can already be considered an elite hitter depending on your definition of elite.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

'Elite' to me are hitters like Pujols, Hafner, Cabrera, Manny, Berkman.... OPS machines who hit for average and obp and slugging. Dunn is clearly not a part of that group.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

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[Dunn] can already be considered an elite hitter depending on your definition of elite.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you think Joe Morgan says dumb things... lol.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

Fair enough. I don't think he'll ever be among the top 5 offensive players.
He's already 26 so I'm pretty sure what you see is what you're going to get. He's still an extremely productive hitter.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
He's still an extremely productive hitter.

[/ QUOTE ]

...depending on your definition of productive, right?

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

I'm not a baseball statistics expert, but I'm pretty sure batting average is the most useless mainstream statistic in all of sports.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

I didn't even read the post, just the title.

Your question is faulty. Adam Dunn can hit and does hit.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a baseball statistics expert, but I'm pretty sure batting average is the most useless mainstream statistic in all of sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously every statistic requires some context. BA is no exception. But to think BA is useless is silly. Clearly getting more hits is good and will have a direct correlation to productivity. This doesn't mean it has a total correlation, but its a part of the mix. Just like QB rating is part of the mix in describing a QB's productivity, but doesn't explain everything, nor is it intended to.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
He's still an extremely productive hitter.

[/ QUOTE ]

...depending on your definition of productive, right?

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No, you idiot. By any non-retarded definition of productive, he is in the upper eschelons of productivity.

Mebenhoe, can we ban this moron?

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
'Elite' to me are hitters like Pujols, Hafner, Cabrera, Manny, Berkman.... OPS machines who hit for average and obp and slugging. Dunn is clearly not a part of that group.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the difference between .265 and .235 that much to make you this upset?

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

Well yeah. But if you sort quarterbacks by QB rating you get a pretty good list from the best to the worst. It's not perfect, but it's reasonable.

If you sort hitters by batting average, the list you come up with is horrible an doesn't even remotely resemble a list of who the best hitters are.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

He's 6'6", with an upright stance, and looping swing.

Not that tough to figure out. If he crouched more, and shortened his swing, he could develop into a .275 hitter after a couple years, but his power would drop. People that are invested in him don't think this is a worthy venture.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's still an extremely productive hitter.

[/ QUOTE ]

...depending on your definition of productive, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you idiot. By any non-retarded definition of productive, he is in the upper eschelons of productivity.

Mebenhoe, can we ban this moron?

[/ QUOTE ]

This reaction is totally uncalled for.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'Elite' to me are hitters like Pujols, Hafner, Cabrera, Manny, Berkman.... OPS machines who hit for average and obp and slugging. Dunn is clearly not a part of that group.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the difference between .265 and .235 that much to make you this upset?

[/ QUOTE ]

upset? and which of those guys are hitting .265? (i don't have stats in front of me)

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

like i said in the original post, BA is a pretty hollow stat, but there is a world of difference between a .300/.380 hitter (who i would consider 'elite) and a .240/.380 hitter (Dunn).

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's still an extremely productive hitter.

[/ QUOTE ]

...depending on your definition of productive, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you idiot. By any non-retarded definition of productive, he is in the upper eschelons of productivity.

Mebenhoe, can we ban this moron?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing on Thayers statement that he was elite depending on definition of elite... was that too subtle for you?

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
like i said in the original post, BA is a pretty hollow stat, but there is a world of difference between a .300/.380 hitter (who i would consider 'elite) and a .240/.380 hitter (Dunn).

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming they have the same Slugging percentage, what is the world of difference?

remarks
 

Ok let's get some things straight. Dunn is a productive hitter. I said this in my OP. He is certainly in the 'upper echelons' as a hitter.

But those of you who think he's one of the best hitters in the league are clearly on crack. How can you possibly make a statement like that?? The 'best hitters', surprisingly, make hits. Dunn does not. Dunn gets on base a ton and hits home runs, which leads to his productivity. But he is by no means one of the 'best hitters' in baseball.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said in the original post, BA is a pretty hollow stat, but there is a world of difference between a .300/.380 hitter (who i would consider 'elite) and a .240/.380 hitter (Dunn).

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming they have the same Slugging percentage, what is the world of difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious or are you joking? The difference is that those 60 extra batting average points equate directly to hits, and hits with men on base usually drive in runs, and you need runs to win games.

Re: remarks
 

Hitter One: .300/.380/.400
Hitter Two: .235/.380/.550

Who is better?

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting fact :

Adam Dunn has a higher Career On-Base Percentage than Ichiro.

[/ QUOTE ]

There ya go! Adam Dunn must be a better leadoff hitter!

(How again was Joe Morgan wrong...?)

[/ QUOTE ]

You're way off here dude. Adam Dunn would be a great leadoff hitter, HOWEVER his ability to hit HRs and 2Bs makes him far more valuable as a middle of the lineup guy. If Ichiro hit for power it would be very dumb to leave him in the leadoff position . Even though he is a great leadoff hitter, there would be more value elsewhere.

And yes, Joe Morgan was wrong. Getting on base is the most important thing a leadoff hitter does.

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hitter One: .300/.380/.400
Hitter Two: .235/.380/.550

Who is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this close:

Hitter One: .300 BA
Hitter Two: .235 BA

I mean, duh.

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hitter One: .300/.380/.400
Hitter Two: .235/.380/.550

Who is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this close:

Hitter One: .300 BA
Hitter Two: .235 BA

I mean, duh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who would you rather have up with 2 outs and a guy on 2nd?

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hitter One: .300/.380/.400
Hitter Two: .235/.380/.550

Who is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this close:

Hitter One: .300 BA
Hitter Two: .235 BA

I mean, duh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who would you rather have up with 2 outs and a guy on 2nd?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmm... the guy who is more likely to get a hit? DUH. Hitter one.

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hitter One: .300/.380/.400
Hitter Two: .235/.380/.550

Who is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does this have anything at all to do with what I'm saying? You're comparing a .300 hitter who doesn't get many extra base hits to someone who hits basically only home runs.

This thread is not about arguing the importance of BA vs. OBP vs. SLG. My point is that Dunn right now is very good. If he could somehow get a handful more singles/doubles every year, he would be 'elite'.

Re: Why can\'t Adam Dunn hit?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well yeah. But if you sort quarterbacks by QB rating you get a pretty good list from the best to the worst. It's not perfect, but it's reasonable.

If you sort hitters by batting average, the list you come up with is horrible an doesn't even remotely resemble a list of who the best hitters are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make it a list of career BA and see if you can say that.

Re: remarks
 

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Who would you rather have up with 2 outs and a guy on 2nd?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hitter 2.

This is difficult... how?

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Who would you rather have up with 2 outs and a guy on 2nd?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hitter 2.

This is difficult... how?

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, you just don't get it. No wonder you have so much trouble...

You have man on 2nd, 2 outs, need a hit to score, and you think its the .235 hitter and its not even close....

Yeah, please teach me more from your wealth of baseball knowledge, lol.

Re: remarks
 

So your definition of "best hitter" is whoever you want up with 2 outs and a runner on second?

Last time I checked, there are more situations than that for determining "best hitter."

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
So your definition of "best hitter" is whoever you want up with 2 outs and a runner on second?

Last time I checked, there are more situations than that for determining "best hitter."

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I say that was my definition of best hitter or did I say that's who I'd take in the scenario I replied to?

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Man, you just don't get it. No wonder you have so much trouble...

You have man on 2nd, 2 outs, need a hit to score, and you think its the .235 hitter and its not even close....

Yeah, please teach me more from your wealth of baseball knowledge, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, no. You are incorrect, but that's okay. It's people like you that allow me to keep winning my Fantasy Baseball leagues.

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
So your definition of "best hitter" is whoever you want up with 2 outs and a runner on second?

Last time I checked, there are more situations than that for determining "best hitter."

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said that. I'm just bringing up a situation where you'd clearly want the hitter who is more likely to hit at least a single. In this case, it is definitely better to have the guy up who is 30% more likely to get a hit.

It just seems like people are so finite in their arguing sometimes.

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hitter One: .300/.380/.400
Hitter Two: .235/.380/.550

Who is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this close:

Hitter One: .300 BA
Hitter Two: .235 BA

I mean, duh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who would you rather have up with 2 outs and a guy on 2nd?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, there are very rare occasions(such as ones where the ability to hit for power or get on base are almost worthless) where a player with a higher BA is more desirable.

Congrats.

Re: remarks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So your definition of "best hitter" is whoever you want up with 2 outs and a runner on second?

Last time I checked, there are more situations than that for determining "best hitter."

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I say that was my definition of best hitter or did I say that's who I'd take in the scenario I replied to?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, but even if you would take the .300 BA guy in that specific situation, what's your point? That in that specific situation you want a guy who hits for less power, gets on base less, and makes contact more often?

Great. So, uh, is there a rush on the market for these kind of guys or what?