Where do the winnings come from?
 

I know - for every winning session there are losing players.

All the poker players I know (including myself) are consistently winning or just doing a lot better than breaking even.

Where are our profits coming from? There must be a shed load of players who bust-reload-bust-reload probably weekly.

Who are they - anybody here? Own up.

The poker room takes their fat cut, and everybody I know (affiliates included) take theirs. So who is feeding this chain?

I can't believe there are THAT many people who just burn through stacks every month with no hope of turning a profit.

WHO ARE YOU? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Post deleted by Ryan Beal
 

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

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There are many, many, many, many, many, many more losers than winners...

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Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

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Where are our profits coming from?

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Tournaments

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

I know a lot of college buddies who suck but continue to play anyway. Popping a 100 dollars every few weeks into 2/4 and 3/6 LHE games. I try to explain they could be winners if they wanted some advice. no takers so far.

Also, I know a guy who luckboxed a big tourny then proceeded to blow it all back into the poker community in the 100 - 400 nl games. So they are definately out there because "he ran badly" over a few months. obviously.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

When I had Poker Edge (before it became illegle) I was amazed at how much people were losing. It almost made me sick.

There are -5BB/100 player with over 30,000 hands. Not one or two but many.

I saw -10BB/100 players with over 10,000 hands in 3/6!

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

People who lose dont like to talk about it. I have a lot of friends who see my success and think they can hop on and do the same, they just end up borrowing money from me and paying me back in cash so its ok hehehe.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

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Where are our profits coming from?

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Tournaments

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Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

from the banks I robbed to feed by addiction

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

People new to the game, or micro players hit a quick run of great cards build up a few hundred or more and drop them at higher limits.

The money fuels up (pyramid style) from players taking shots at higher level games who can't beat them, & who are underbankrolled for the game.

I see them type this in the chat at NL 200, NL400 or NL600 where I play. They'll say they built up a roll over the past week & are taking at shot at a higher level.
They have most of their roll in play.

Just a matter of time before they blow it all, and have to rebuild again unless they wise up and drop down or cash out.

A nice % of my winnings comes from these type of players at my mid stakes NL games.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

Ummm...just look at your pokertracker database. You'll see plenty of losers!

Actually you do see people who are winners on this site, but you have to realize that the number of people on this site compared to the number who play the game is miniscule. We are just a tiny tiny fraction of those that make up the online poker world. I'm not saying all of those who don't participate here are losers and I'm not saying everyone here are winners, but you can't take a subset of 2+2ers and assume that is an accurate sample of the online poker playing world.

We are just more important. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

losing players like me! just lost br dont really mind, i definitely wouldnt have if i came to this forums earlier. i had a hundred dollar bankroll (miniscule to alot of you guys) but i was playing all sorts of 10 dollar sit and gos and 1/2 limit lol. pretty stupid i no

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

Give me my $$ back.. Bastered...

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

I was wondering this same thing... millions are taken out of the poker econmy from rake by party poker and millions more are won byt the winning players... where does all this money come from?

I had my eyes opened by two cousins of mine. One's just a regular dude, who saw me qualify for the WSOP and WPT last year... every paycheck Friday he deposits a couple hundred and tries tournaments out... he donates 100% of the money he puts in. He's financially secure, has a house and car, so he doesnt care for that money, its entertainment for him.

My other cousin is a millionaire home builder. He decided one day to try online poker at Party... his only poker experience being home games and pub tourneys. So he tries out a few tourneys... like the $162 Supers and then moved to cash games. Well, what cash game does he choose to play as his first online cash game ever? Not 25nl, not 100nl, nope he started right at $400 NL, which was, at the time, what I was playing as a pro. Of course he gets stacked in his very first hand, and proceeds to donate the rest of the money he bought in for.

These two guys gave me a good insight into who the losing players we feed of might be.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

I think winnings come from the -ve expectation held by most players. Whether they admit it or not, they view poker like blackjack or roulette and the hope of getting lucky is an integral part of their winning strategy. Look at it this way... If the legislated solution to 'legalize' intenet gambling results in a gaming tax that increases the rake high enough so that everyone who refuses to play if they have don't have a +ve expectation quits, would you be surprised if 75%+ of the players kept on playing? They'd still have their "If I get lucky, I can still win" mentality.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

Poker (read: variance) is a deceptive thing. A good run of cards can permanently fool you into thinking you're the greatest poker player to ever grace the tables; on the other hand, a bad run can make even a winning player doubt his/her ability. The money comes from the delusions/illusions sowed by variance.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

If you want to find out what losing players are really like and where the money comes from, just spend more time playing in casinos.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

I deposited $100 into Party last December, printed out a starting hand chart and never looked back. Grinded it up to $500 by the end of the month just playing micros a few hours a week.

It really isn't rocket science - just ABC poker. Printed off a couple of pot odds sheets a few weeks later to help with my drawing decisions.

I really don't understand how so many of the players on so many sites play so badly.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

Lots and lots of small losers, and a few long term losers, and a very few long term winners...

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

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If you want to find out what losing players are really like and where the money comes from, just spend more time playing in casinos.

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Yeah - I'm sure lots of peoples' monthly budget takes account of the following:

-food
-rent/mortgage
-travel/car
-poker account re-loads
-entertainment
-misc

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

go to most college campuses in the dorm hall and browse through past peoples doors and marvel at all the donators, not hard to find

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

my friend works at bodog poker, the amount of players who win consistently are very small and most who say they do are not goot

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

The money just funnels up. Poker at the low levels is VERY cheap entertainment for someone with a decent income. You can spend $100+ on a cheap dinner and movie, or play for 2 weeks at the micros as a significant loser.

The collector fish at the micro's do a good job of funnelling that money up to midstakes. Where it gets redistributed amongst the better players. They take underolled shots (only takes a small touch of variance)and end up giving the money to well bank-rolled players. So they go back to killing collector fish.

Very efficient system. The load is extremely light on the mass donators, with near perfect mechanisms for positively reinforcing continued play. As long as poker remains a good VALUE for entertainment the money will just keep flowing up, imho.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

A very nice way to look at things!! I like this post..

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

After reading The Psychology of Poker I've come to understand that people play poker for many reasons. One of them is to make money, but there are many other motivations. The thrill of winning a pot. The social aspect of sitting at the table. Passing time. etc. etc.

Winning poker isn't always the most important thing to every person.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

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All the poker players I know (including myself) are consistently winning or just doing a lot better than breaking even.


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Your friends are lying to you.
When people say they are "breaking even" at poker, they are losing.
When people say they are "winning a little at poker," they are breaking even, or losing.
When people say they are "winning a lot at poker," they are breaking even, or losing.

When people don't tell you how they're doing at poker, then, and only then, they are winning, breaking even, or losing.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm...just look at your pokertracker database. You'll see plenty of losers!

Actually you do see people who are winners on this site, but you have to realize that the number of people on this site compared to the number who play the game is miniscule. We are just a tiny tiny fraction of those that make up the online poker world. I'm not saying all of those who don't participate here are losers and I'm not saying everyone here are winners, but you can't take a subset of 2+2ers and assume that is an accurate sample of the online poker playing world.

We are just more important. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I guarantee that, even removing OOT from the equation, the majority of posters on 2+2 or losing players.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

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All the poker players I know (including myself) are consistently winning or just doing a lot better than breaking even.


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Ditto. That and you're assuming a closed economy. New people are trying out online on the time, just as the tourists are constantly floating in and out of Vegas.

Your friends are lying to you.
When people say they are "breaking even" at poker, they are losing.
When people say they are "winning a little at poker," they are breaking even, or losing.
When people say they are "winning a lot at poker," they are breaking even, or losing.

When people don't tell you how they're doing at poker, then, and only then, they are winning, breaking even, or losing.

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Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

mjws00 - excellent post. 100% correct.

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ummm...just look at your pokertracker database. You'll see plenty of losers!

Actually you do see people who are winners on this site, but you have to realize that the number of people on this site compared to the number who play the game is miniscule. We are just a tiny tiny fraction of those that make up the online poker world. I'm not saying all of those who don't participate here are losers and I'm not saying everyone here are winners, but you can't take a subset of 2+2ers and assume that is an accurate sample of the online poker playing world.

We are just more important. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I guarantee that, even removing OOT from the equation, the majority of posters on 2+2 or losing players.

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what about removing OOT, the Zoo, WPT, WSOP discussion, and BBV?

Barron

Re: Where do the winnings come from?
 

This is probably the most logical explanation, on-line poker with low and micro limits and inexpensive tournaments has made this a VERY inexpensive way for people to have some fun. If someone blows $10 - $15 on a Friday night playing 0.25/0.50; they probably don't care - that's what it would cost to see a crappy movie at the theater.
The only thing I'd add is that some novices(like me) see their losses as the cost of learning how to play better. I'm humble enough to admit I'm still learning and on-line is a VERY cheap way (compared to a casino trip) to get the basics and get a lot of hands under your belt. Then if you win a few you get cocky, move up and find out if you've really improved.