Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

I'm new to this forum, if this has been recently done please lock/delete/ban me. Thanks.

In the Die Hard thread, someone mentioned how very helpful it was to the plot that in DH2 that it was snowing/dark. Yeah, good point as it was sort of necessary to pull off a plan that they had a very tight deadline for.

Also, in the movie The Fugitive, Dr. Nichols helping out Dr. Kimble with money, not turning him in, etc., aided the plot but it made no sense at all as it just allowed Kimble more time to build his case against...Dr. Nichols.

Dunno, I'm sure there are many others but I thought I'd be interested in any participation/examples. Thanks.

Re: Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

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Also, in the movie The Fugitive, Dr. Nichols helping out Dr. Kimble with money, not turning him in, etc., aided the plot but it made no sense at all as it just allowed Kimble more time to build his case against...Dr. Nichols.

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This always bothered me.

I'll try to think of more as I know I have been frustrated on more than one occasion while watching a movie.

Re: Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

There is one huge one for me, and it comes in, of all movies, Sideways. I love the film, should probably write a review of it, etc. but one thing that bugs the hell out of me is when Jack and Miles go into the winery where Stephanie works, Jack just throws out there "Hey do you happen to know Maya, this waitress from the Hitching Post?" Of course, they're good friends, and provide the perfect combo to offset Jack and Miles.

Maybe I'm just unfamiliar w/ the California wine country, and this sort of thing makes sense, but to me, in a movie where every other little detail is so well thought through, so convincing, I just find this a little too far fetched, and gets me every time.

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Also, in the movie The Fugitive, Dr. Nichols helping out Dr. Kimble with money, not turning him in, etc., aided the plot but it made no sense at all as it just allowed Kimble more time to build his case against...Dr. Nichols.

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This always bothered me.

I'll try to think of more as I know I have been frustrated on more than one occasion while watching a movie.

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It might have been more suspicious for Nichols to refuse to give Kimble $200 and tell him to piss off.

Plus, it took a lot of detective work to connect Nichols with the death. First, Kimble was after the one-armed man, then the trail led to the dead doctor (Lentz?), and then he had to go to the lab and get a lot more help to figure out Nichols was involved. It's reasonable to conclude Nichols would not have thought Kimble would be able to dig so deeply.

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Actually, the Sideways thing you speak of is completely plausible since the winemaker community in Santa Barbara County is pretty small and very tightly connected. Gray Hartley and Frank Ostini own the Hitching Post restaurants and also have their own wine Hitching Post wine label. That other winery people would know people working at the Hitching Post is entirely believable.

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Actually, the Sideways thing you speak of is completely plausible since the winemaker community in Santa Barbara County is pretty small and very tightly connected. Gray Hartley and Frank Ostini own the Hitching Post restaurants and also have their own wine Hitching Post wine label. That other winery people would know people working at the Hitching Post is entirely believable.

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This makes me feel so much better about life. Seriously, this is like you telling me "No, no Santa IS real."

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In one of the most underrated films of the last 10 years, there is something that bugs me about Ronin - near the end, somehow the bearded guy at the villa is able to find out where the Irish terrorists are hiding out with Gregor and tells Robert Deniro and Jean Reno, not the authorities, etc. It always seemed a conveinent deus ex machina so there could be another sweet car chase.

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Darth Vadar being Luke's father and Leia being his sister. I mean, come on...

Plus, just about the whole of Point Break.

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Ronin is great. Love the bullet removal scene.

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I've been thinking a whole thread just for this subject on Independence Day. I know it's supposed to be ridiculous. But still might be fun to catalog the most ludicrous ridiculosity. I vote for Will Smith happening to crash his jet within alien dragging distance of Area 51.

Re: Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

I don't think a deus ex machina has bothered me more than the one in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I spent about 8 hours of my life wondering, "How the hell are these few humans and elves gonna defeat thousands upon thousands of orcs?" The characters kept harping on it too, making sure we knew what an obstacle they were facing.

Then 3/4 of the way through the last movie Viggo Mortensen slaps his hand to his forehead and says, "Oh yeah! I almost forgot, we have a [censored] ghost army that's invincible! We'll just use them!"

I know that that's Tolkien's fault and not the fault of the filmmakers, but since I've only seen the movies I choose to blame Peter Jackson.

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I've been thinking a whole thread just for this subject on Independence Day. I know it's supposed to be ridiculous. But still might be fun to catalog the most ludicrous ridiculosity. I vote for Will Smith happening to crash his jet within alien dragging distance of Area 51.

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I always thought the fact that the aliens computer system was compatible with Windows 95 was fairly implausible.

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Come on Dom, there's enough Apple product placement in that movie to make a guy sick, at least recognize what platform they use to hack the alien network.

Swede

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Come on Dom, there's enough Apple product placement in that movie to make a guy sick, at least recognize what platform they use to hack the alien network.

Swede

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you're right, it was Apple! I've always thought that was a lucky break for Earth that Steve Jobs apparently got the alien computer system contract right before they invaded.

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I always thought it was hilariously stupid the way Tom Cruise contacts Max in Mission Impossible.

First he does a search for "Job 314" on the internet, then sends an e-mail to Job@3:14, or something like that, then starts posting Bible verses on newsgroups.

Right away, he gets a message back.

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Collateral....the DA that Max picked up in his cab and is working on the case is the same one that Vincent has on his hit list. And they all meet on that one fateful day. What are the odds of that happening in a bigass place like L.A.? Lucky for us, she's last on the hit list, so we get all the interplay between Max and Vincent and a nice little role for Bruce McGill (homage to "that guy" thread.) Good movie, but kinda tough to swallow in retrospect.

Props to the ID4 pickup. "I gave it a cold." What a crock of [censored].

I think this also goes for movies like Blade, X-Men, etc. where some mystical phenomenon like vampirism or mutation can be cured with a simple injection. Whatever.

ScottieK

Re: Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

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Darth Vadar being Luke's father and Leia being his sister. I mean, come on...

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How is that a lucky coincidence? It's central to the entire plot.

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I can't think of a specific example at the moment but so many action/heist/war movies would be examples. How often do you see a huge elaborate plot which takes so much planning or is crucial to the story and then when its pulled off, it could have been spoiled if one person would have screamed, or some other very easily possible event occurred--like people actually had peripheral vision and could easily spot someone running just out of their main field of view (every escape movie ever fits here, too).

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I've been thinking a whole thread just for this subject on Independence Day. I know it's supposed to be ridiculous. But still might be fun to catalog the most ludicrous ridiculosity. I vote for Will Smith happening to crash his jet within alien dragging distance of Area 51.

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I always thought the fact that the aliens computer system was compatible with Windows 95 was fairly implausible.

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Umm, HELLO? Windows 95 was revolutionary because it was PLUG N PLAY

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When Wolverine is hacking into some bank's computer to get money for Vincent Vega, why doesn't he get Storm's help and just beat the [censored] out of everyone? That would have been so much easier.

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It might have been more suspicious for Nichols to refuse to give Kimble $200 and tell him to piss off.

Plus, it took a lot of detective work to connect Nichols with the death. First, Kimble was after the one-armed man, then the trail led to the dead doctor (Lentz?), and then he had to go to the lab and get a lot more help to figure out Nichols was involved. It's reasonable to conclude Nichols would not have thought Kimble would be able to dig so deeply.

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The correct answer - albeit one that would have made the movie suck - is to give him money and then call an anonymous tip in regarding what was (the way the movie presented it) the most wanted man in Chicago.

You make a good point in your second paragraph, but the movie made Kimble out to be a very resourceful saint with a lot of people who would cover for him; Nichols would have known this already via character witnesses at his trial.

Reading too much into a movie I really enjoyed, of course, but this was the one glaring plot hole to me (aside from surviving the jump off the dam basically uninjured).

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Reading too much into a movie I really enjoyed, of course, but this was the one glaring plot hole to me (aside from surviving the jump off the dam basically uninjured).

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Ewww. Didnt you see that nasty flesh wound he self treated at the hospital? And talk about plot holes, yeah he's a vascalur surgeon or whatever, but come on, there's no way he can self treat that wound and it looked like that wound needed a lot more extensive treatment then just a shot in the butt.

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In the Matrix. Neo is asleep at his desk. "Neo, wake up." Neo does wake up. Then he hits Ctrl+X.

That is the shortcut for cut. That bugs the crap out of me everytime I see it.

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In Training Day, that gang is about to kill Ethan Hawke after Denzel abandons him in their house. However, they let him go when they find on him the ID of a girl that he had saved from being raped earlier in the day. Luckily, the girl was the sister of one of the guys trying to kill Hawke. That was a ridiculous coincidence in an otherwise good movie.

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I've been thinking a whole thread just for this subject on Independence Day. I know it's supposed to be ridiculous. But still might be fun to catalog the most ludicrous ridiculosity. I vote for Will Smith happening to crash his jet within alien dragging distance of Area 51.

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Actually that ENTIRE film fits the criteria of my OP. That may be the worst big-budget film I've ever seen (IMO obviously). Haven't seen it since it came out, but the two things I recall even today:

- in the freeway tunnel, the wife or whoever just ducks into a nook and somehow avoids the apocalypse that befell the non-nooked.

- all those people drunk off their ass suddenly sober up and learn how to pilot fighter planes...all in like a half an hour.

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- in the freeway tunnel, the wife or whoever just ducks into a nook and somehow avoids the apocalypse that befell the non-nooked.

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the amazing thing is that years later, everytime i see one of those tunnels, i instantly think of that scene. my brain irrationally says "ok, if something happens, head for that nook."

sometimes my brain is dumb.

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I always thought it was hilariously stupid the way Tom Cruise contacts Max in Mission Impossible.

First he does a search for "Job 314" on the internet, then sends an e-mail to Job@3:14, or something like that, then starts posting Bible verses on newsgroups.

Right away, he gets a message back.

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This is the clear best answer. Its hilarious to watch this scene now that the internet isnt something in university libraries. One of the most awkward and dated scenes ever.

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Mike McD getting $10K from the check cashing place.

The kidnapped cop having met Mr. Orange before in Reservoir Dogs.

In the Usual Suspects, the fax with the sketch of Keyser Soze comes in just after he leaves the police station. If it comes in 2 minutes earlier, he doesn't get away, which kinda defeats the point of the whole movie.

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Flightplan. That movie is like one big plothole, filled with plotholes. I'm not gonna elaborate, since it kinda gives away the whole movie.

EDIT: Also I liked Inside Man, but it bothered me a bit, how he got the info for the job.

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In Training Day, that gang is about to kill Ethan Hawke after Denzel abandons him in their house. However, they let him go when they find on him the ID of a girl that he had saved from being raped earlier in the day. Luckily, the girl was the sister of one of the guys trying to kill Hawke. That was a ridiculous coincidence in an otherwise good movie.

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I don't think the coincidence of it being the guy's sister is bad. What I think is bad is that they even found the photo and looked at it closely at all before killing him.

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Mike McD getting $10K from the check cashing place.



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This was explained in a Bill Simmons article where he speaks with those who made rounders.

They cut out a scene where the Judge knows the owner of the check cashing place and calls in the favor to get the check cashed and also to waive any fees so he would be charged the usuals % in this type of instance. It was cut because it was deemed to be unnecessary but obviously it may have been as many people mention/discuss it.

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Mike McD getting $10K from the check cashing place.



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This was explained in a Bill Simmons article where he speaks with those who made rounders.

They cut out a scene where the Judge knows the owner of the check cashing place and calls in the favor to get the check cashed and also to waive any fees so he would be charged the usuals % in this type of instance. It was cut because it was deemed to be unnecessary but obviously it may have been as many people mention/discuss it.

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I don't see why it's such a big deal. If the standard charge is 1%, then Mike got back $9,900 from the check cashing place. If he had $100 in his pocket, then he's got $10K.

Re: Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

This may not be what you're looking for, but a few that have always bothered me.

Reservoir Dogs - In theory, none of the movie should have taken place, as I believe the undercover cop wouldn't be allowed to let Mr Blonde shoot up the place. He would have had to blow cover at that point and try and save people.

From Dusk Til Dawn - I know you have to suspend disbelief when watching horror movies, but one scene really bother's me. When Harvey Keitel says, "Alright, now what do we know about vampires?" He asks as if there's an actual answer. Nothing, is the answer. Until then, you thought vampires didn't exist, you don't know a thing about them.

Ocean's 11 - What's the point of George Clooney prentending to be "out," and then being in the elevator shaft? What was the plan prior to that? Why try and mess with the guy helping you rob a casino?

That's all I can think of for now.

Re: Movie Incongruities/Lucky Coincidences
 

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Mike McD getting $10K from the check cashing place.



[/ QUOTE ]

This was explained in a Bill Simmons article where he speaks with those who made rounders.

They cut out a scene where the Judge knows the owner of the check cashing place and calls in the favor to get the check cashed and also to waive any fees so he would be charged the usuals % in this type of instance. It was cut because it was deemed to be unnecessary but obviously it may have been as many people mention/discuss it.

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I don't see why it's such a big deal. If the standard charge is 1%, then Mike got back $9,900 from the check cashing place. If he had $100 in his pocket, then he's got $10K.

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I think the major focus is how would someone walk into a place at night and cash a check for that amount, there not just gonna take ID and go heres 10k. Thats where the implausibility lies.

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Ocean's 11 - What's the point of George Clooney prentending to be "out," and then being in the elevator shaft? What was the plan prior to that? Why try and mess with the guy helping you rob a casino?

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OMG there are a ton in Oceans 11.

Another one I can think of is the fact that the two door guards NEVER once go into the room while the big tattooed guy is supposedly beating up Clooney. Clooney is meanwhile down there with Damon helping him out and that giant tattooed guy pretends to beat him up for like 30 minutes? And the 2 guys standing outside the door never happen to peek in just to check up on things? Or did they, and the big guy paid them off with the $1M he got from Clooney?

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Heist

Great movie. It's got:

1. Ricky Jay

2. tons of cool cons and tricks

3. "There's nothing wrong with prayer. We knew this firefighter, this trooper, who always caried a bible next to his heart. We used to mock him, but that bible stopped a bullet." (No [censored]?) "Hand of God, that bible stopped a bullet, would of ruined that [censored]'s heart. And had he had another bible in front of his face, that man would be alive today."

But it also has at least one incongruity that bugs me: The main character was planning, from the start, on being betrayed by his wife, and that was just one more built-in double-triple-reversal double-cross that he had planned for, and not only that, which didn't bother him at all -- he actually smiles as he rolls down the road in his get-away truck with the gold, no wife, and people dead as a result of this caper.

(I left 4. off the list because not everyone will appreciate it, but let me say that I definitely count David Mammet's awkward, unrealistic dialog as a plus. How I have come to love it -- especially when he directs the picture, and I can imagine him giving direction, "No no no, too much feeling. The key to acting is enunciation! Give me cardboard, people, try again..."

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Reservoir Dogs - In theory, none of the movie should have taken place, as I believe the undercover cop wouldn't be allowed to let Mr Blonde shoot up the place. He would have had to blow cover at that point and try and save people.


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If I remember right, the plan was for Mr Orange (undercover cop, Tim Roth) and Mr White (Harvey Keitel) to take the manager into the back and get the diamonds. The rest of the thieves were supposed to stay in the front and take care of the employees and customers. This could explain why Mr Orange wasn't around when Mr Blonde started shooting people.

But then again, Mr Orange would have heard the gunshots (maybe he couldn't respond in time?). And also, there's the scene where Mr White is describing to Eddie what Mr Blonde did. If Mr White say Blonde's rampage, then that means that Mr Orange probably did too, since White and Orange were supposed to be working together.

hmmmmm I dunno I always figured that Orange couldn't stop the rampage because he was in the back with White and the manager, but now that I think about it, it doesn't make sense.

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How the hell did the TRex get inside the Visitor's Center?

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I don't think a deus ex machina has bothered me more than the one in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I spent about 8 hours of my life wondering, "How the hell are these few humans and elves gonna defeat thousands upon thousands of orcs?" The characters kept harping on it too, making sure we knew what an obstacle they were facing.

Then 3/4 of the way through the last movie Viggo Mortensen slaps his hand to his forehead and says, "Oh yeah! I almost forgot, we have a [censored] ghost army that's invincible! We'll just use them!"

I know that that's Tolkien's fault and not the fault of the filmmakers, but since I've only seen the movies I choose to blame Peter Jackson.

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Actually, that entire sequence is quite different in the book. In the book, the army of the dead actually only participates in a series of smaller battles in the south, helping to free up several armies of men who were under siege there, and defeating reinforcements of Sauron's army who were on their way to Minas Tirith. The importance of them was that by helping to defeat Sauron's forces in the south, it enabled the large armies of men to come to reinforce Minas Tirith. The army that Aragorn leads to that battle was an army of men, and it is they who are critical in turning the tide of the battle. The idea of an invincible ghost army that just arrives and instantly kills everything in sight is completely the invention of the filmmakers.

[/Tolkien geek]

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Actually, that entire sequence is quite different in the book.

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The importance of them was that by helping to defeat Sauron's forces in the south, it enabled the large armies of men to come to reinforce Minas Tirith.

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Not to mention loyalty, debt paying, suffering consequences of one's own actions, etc., are recurring themes in the novels.

And it isn't as if these ideas were cobled in so the "ghost army" angle could be pulled off later on.