How long till I win??
 

Been playing for 10 months...COLDWOLF#1on stars.Started on Partypoker 3 months ago as COLDWOLF888.Never won on either(other then the sitngoes)wasted the first 4 months just playin stupidly on the sngs..Read doyle,helmuth,and magazines for about 5 months..reading HOH 1&2 now.Found this great site a week ago.Been playin solid for a few months and never even sniffed a first..Made 3 final tables 3, thats it..the more I learn the more I apply,but at 2 or three tourneys a day....when should I change styles?I have seen worse players with at least a couple of wins...Hard to see where i should be at.Anybody played 10 months with no MTT wins?I just would hate to play a year and then tell the wife ..well... im... a well.. got a 3rd...lol.So im wondering..how do you rate yourselves? Im losing money.. about 200 or 300 a month,but i tell myself win one tourney thats $5 dollars or more of an entry fee and im ahead for the year instantly.i guess Im looking for some mystical scale that says you are here X...and you should be here XX.. for the time you have been playing.So do yall advise more patience...or get the dartboard out again? thanks!

Re: How long till I win??
 

It could take a while. I've never won a 'real' MTT either...but I haven't lost any money because I'm mostly playing the $1 45 person MTTs, which are very +EV for me, and pretty low variance too. I'm not saying this is the fast way to get good, but it gives me all the time in the world to build a bankroll, improve my skills, and not piss off my wife by losing hundreds of dollars.

Re: How long till I win??
 

Oh - I thought there was gonna be an over/under to bet on.

Seriously, yes. I advise more patience. Try other tournies that you don't usually play too. Lower buy-ins, other sites, Value-Added (where the site sweetens the prize pool) games, etc. When you find one you feel comfy in keep at it a little bit. Then branch out a little at a time.

You keep reading, playing and posting tricky hands here you'll win one. But I can't give you a time frame. I guarantee you won't win one if you quit though.

Re: How long till I win??
 

I've been playing for 2 years, still waiting on my first win. Finished 2nd way too much and probably finished in every other top 10 position at least once. Keep learning, you'll win one eventually.

Re: How long till I win??
 

2.5 yrs... I've won two micro 'stars tournaments, quite a few cashes, some fairly deep out of nearly a thousand of them. I've won one $22x180 out of 110 tries. MMmmmMmMMmMmm, losing.

Re: How long till I win??
 

thaks so far for yalls honesty...i need more responses to plesae

Re: How long till I win??
 

To be really honest, you may never win a real MTT. There are tons of breakeven and winning players that will never win a large tournament. It doesn't mean you're not a good player, but that your sample size is just too small.

And, you say you've seen worse players with a couple of wins. There are actually very few players with multiple MTT wins and I doubt that very many at all are bad players.

Just keep trying and read these forums to tune your bubble and end game play.

Re: How long till I win??
 

Coldwolf -

I have been playing for a about 24-30 months, and while I have won a large MTT, it was chopped 3 handed so it wasn't a 'true' win. I have won some 4.40/180 mans, but that is not too large a field. I also go "deeper" much more often now in large field tournaments, with low to medium buy-ins. I also like the 45 man SNG's on stars, they are relatively short and just playing standard TAG seems to be profitable.

But......NONE of this happened to me within the first year. In fact, it has all happened within the last 6 months or so. Why...? because I started taking it seriously. I don't play as often as I would like, but I don't force it if I don't have time. When i did try and "squeeze" a tournament in, I never played my best. I also started posting more on twoplustwo, and really *THINKING* about my bets, checks, folds (and WHY was I doing or not doing such and such a thing), every aspect of the game.

Another important thing - in my opening line, I said 24-30 months of poker. Why don't I know exactly? No spreadsheet....I can't imagine playing without one now. It keeps track of your progress/results, and forces you to be honest with yourself.

So to summarize: be patient, stick with it BUT keep in mind you probably won't start winning/going very deep until you really take it seriously.

(note - not to assume you don't do this now per se, but just pointing out that when i really focused and tried my best my results turned around.)

Re: How long till I win??
 

I think its really hard for a semi beginner to go deep into MTT's especially win one because there is so much you need to know but with more practice comes better results...I havent won a really big one but i got 2nd twice so I started playing more HU sngs to get over that hump...I also think that playing in one table sngs will help once you start making it to the final table all the chip stacks will vary...Good luck

Re: How long till I win??
 

play small fields with < 40, you'll win one in a week.

Re: How long till I win??
 

[ QUOTE ]
how do you rate yourselves? Im losing money.. about 200 or 300 a month,but i tell myself win one tourney thats $5 dollars or more of an entry fee and im ahead for the year instantly

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the only real criterion is whether or not you are losing money. The most important subjective criterion is whether or not you come away from the table satisfied with your play, be it win or loss. If you feel you play good, and if you can afford to lose 200-300 a month, then just keep on going. However, I would recommend trying other sites with smaller fields at comparable levels. I'm sure you don't truly realize how sickening variance in tournaments is.

FWIW, I was in exactly same boat, down a few thousands, absolutely positive that I was doing a lot of things right, but unable to close the deal at all. And then I hit a major hot streak this March.

You would also do well to learn games other than NLHE, because fields there are not as big, and you might find yourself enjoy them and/or be good at them.

Re: How long till I win??
 

I appreciate the responses...guess i better clarify a little..ive won a lot of sitngos...3 yesterday..MTTs I cant hit ... you can look me up on pokerdb.com -pokerstars its COLDWOLF#1,partypoker im COLDWOLF888..its the MTT that i crave a first in...would rebuy tourneys be a better option?some platers here win every couple weeks consistantly..they arent lucky they are good...the end game is the tough part..maybe they are great with the pot odds and implied odds and will play any two if the pot is right when it comes to them.I would like to believe im only a couple races or coin flips from taking 30th to 1st.I dont think that is the case.Ive gotten my money in late with the best hand late several times..and lost.Perhaps the key is to get my money in some huge pots with any two cards because the odds are too good to pass on.thanks for the input keep it coming ... iguess its more of an endgame post...that is probably the crux of the no wins problem

Re: How long till I win??
 

If you're getting your money in with the best hand late in a tournament, then you aren't doing anything wrong (with the possible exception of not having enough chips at that stage to avoid going all-in, but sometimes you just can't help it). Everyone says you need to get lucky to win tournaments, but in reality it's not getting unlucky that's far more important. It sucks that you are getting so close and then catching a bad beat just when it would skyrocket you to a chance at the title. But believe me, there are many of us out here that know the feeling.

I'm not saying that there aren't areas to improve, there probably are (for most of us really). But if the only thing that's keeping you from a win so far is a nasty string of beats in late-game pots, then just keep doing what you're doing and wait for the percentages to catch up to you. Eventually, you'll find your way to the top.

--TFGoose

Re: How long till I win??
 

Ive been playing for 12 months with around 1200 mtts played (fields of 50+)buy ins $1 to $5 & FR's.Ive had 26 wins & 95 FT,s no big wins,$400 being the biggest which was in my 1st ever tournie 1 year ago,best finish probably 2nd out of 3500 in a FR & I did have a run of 9 ft's in 7 days a few months ago.
I dont feel I have the skills or confidence to enter any of the higher buy in MTT's.

Re: How long till I win??
 

Wow,,what exactly are you waiting for to enter higher MTTS.?Every tourney i enter 10 and under has 1100 to 2400 people?Frankly I dont understand what your waiting for?

Re: How long till I win??
 

I second what kutuz_off said - go to a smaller site ro smaller games. I had a mini-hot-streak in Jan coming in 4th in two 2,400+ tourneys ($11 and $22 buyins) in a matter of a week ($1,200 and $3,000 cashes) and then hitting a long cold streak. righ now I MOSTLY play on a smaller site Titan Poker - fields of about 120 players are common, and I FTd 6 tourneys in the last 3 weeks, winning 1 of them.

PokerStars and Party and other sites are full of peple using PokerTracked and PA HUD and stuff - smaller sites are not compatible with most software packages out there. Draw your own conclusions.

Re: How long till I win??
 

Good post. As a relative beginner I was looking for a post like this, 12 months or so ago, but couldnt find one and was worried about why I couldnt win or even place well in mtt's. Dont worry. Keep learning and it will come.

After reading these forums along with HOH 1+2 I realized that variance plays a huge part in mtts, and that theres a lot more to succesful tournament poker than playing "well".

[ QUOTE ]
Wow,,what exactly are you waiting for to enter higher MTTS.?Every tourney i enter 10 and under has 1100 to 2400 people?Frankly I dont understand what your waiting for?

[/ QUOTE ]

To get good enough, basically.
I agree 100% with everyone thats said drop down in field size/change sites.

Ive been playing about 18 months now, I was instantly hooked and after getting used to the game in home games and small stakes sngs, I became more interested in mtts, and I began studying particularly mtts in depth. Started out playing $1 +$2 400-500 runners and getting along ok but always bustin around 100th, couldnt progress. Built my bankroll with sngs and cash games, and started playing $5 mtts with a field of around 120-40 on prima, and through lots of reading 2p2 and practicing, my results got better.

I made the bubble twice, then got an 8th or something and things just started to click. And in the last two weeks ive Ft'd 5 times, with my first victory, a second, two fourths and a fifth. Ive really got used to the quality of my opposition, and can spot opportunities (bad players) and kinda find my spots to make moves a lot better.

But the sad thing is, the more you know, the more you know you dont know. I know I could get along at a higher level, but I just wouldnt have the edge I have at my current level, and would mainly lose (barring some nice runs of cards/outdraws) because I would be one of the poorer, less experienced players there.

My advice would be start again and start small. Read lots, and study hands on the mtt board here. Realise why things make sense, and ask questions. I have now turned my pathetic initial $20 deposit into nearly 4 figures and its so satisfying, so keep at it cos you'll get there and youll love it man.

sorry for the long post, i had a pre tourney smoke tonight [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]\

sup

Re: How long till I win??
 

I have almost always been a winning poker player. I have just recently started getting into MTTs.

Some things I think are very important are

1.) Try to understand variance. If you win 2x as often as a break even player you probably play quite well. And it also means in a 1,000 man MTT, you are 500 to 1 against doing it. Anything but the largest of sample sizes could easily be very misleading in large field MTTs.
This is why playing smaller fields is good advise.

2.) Learning SNGs will elevate your game. I would advise learning to beat them ALL before tackling MTTs. HU, single tables, and 5 tables. This will teach you to play in elevating blinds, sound bubble play, and the HU skills you need to close the deal.

3.) Don't let beats take you off your game. I know it sucks to play GREAT poker for 2.5 hours only to get Bad beated just shy of the money or more importantly shy of the good deep money. When this happens Cus, squeeze a rubber stress toy, beat your pet, do whatever you have to do, then refer to point #1, rinse and repeat.

I am still a beginner, but I think it's time for me to start mixing in winning advise with my dumb questions. And giving back to the forum. And this is some safe winning advise.

Re: How long till I win??
 

Great advice!!! great stories.So get some tourneys on smaller sites..but not many tourneys every hour like stars is there?Is poker stars and Party the best Players?I dont focus on small sitngos..im not building a bank roll. im looking for a sweet payday on a large tourney. all your posts are great..its hard to know where you are with out other peoples stories..really boosts my excitement.The other site i posted on never answered...or refer you to some obscure thread my computer illerate self couldnt navigate to.Personally i find the endgame of the sitngoes not good practice for MTT endgames...IMO the sitngo players are not near the sophistication of the 10 dollar 135 players left in a field of of 1500 tourney.45 player sitngo they arent the same

Re: How long till I win??
 

Party Poker has 5 table 50 man SNGs. Stars has 180 man MTTs. Get a few....thousand...of those under your belt then post some results, I'll be curious to see myself.

Re: How long till I win??
 

I was in the same boat for a while... I would crash and burn in MTT's right after the bubble busted. I would survive and survive and just have very low chips when we got into the money and wasn't really able to do much when the money kicked in. I've adjusted my game through a lot of self reflection and found a style that suits me better.

Since then, I've won my second online tourney, the first being a 1 dollar MTT about 2 years ago. I also managed to FT the same tourney the next time I played it. And the reason you see a lot of good players "winning" many tourneys every month is because they are also "losing" a whole butt load of tourneys as well. In other words, they are playing upwards of many many more tourneys then you and I ever will play in any single day, week or even month.

Since they play a lot more tourneys, they are naturally also going to win a lot more. So don't be too discouraged if you haven't got a MTT win in yet. Keep trying. Good luck.

Re: How long till I win??
 

i've been playing for ever and can't win diddly squat in any MTT, with only 1 final table in a piddly arse $2 MTT (1127 players) at stars and some qualifiers to bigger tournaments that resulted in exactly $0 (went out 142nd at Tilt Sunday, 99 pay, standard for me and not being able to make the $ in anything of any real size...)

i the quinessential loser at poker, playing for enjoyment thinking i'd be better than i am and tossing $ in each month to continue to play MTTs thinking that someday i'll win something...

there is a very, very good chance that winning will not happen.

truthfully, for me, i have come to accept that i'm one of the whatever odd % of people that lose at poker. i have some disposable income i can throw at poker each month, and i do because i love the game.

maybe not what you want to hear, but not everyone is cut out for poker greatness ...

Re: How long till I win??
 

well no time like the present to put your advice to work..Im going to enter 10 little tourneys 6 on pokerstars:$1- 45 man sng two times,$5- 45 man sng twice,$4= dollar 180 man sng twice,and then 4 on partypoker $6- dollar 20or30 man twice, and $6- dollar 50 man twice..ill give results when there done...also could some one post sites they think have easier tournaments they speak of?Thanks again

Re: How long till I win??
 

Getting over that hump and to the next level is always a challenge. Reading books is always a good idea and great learning tool (HOH 1/2 pwn) but the best thing for your game is practice. I suggest reading up on SNG strategy and learning to beat those before moving on to MTTs. By playing SNGs you can sustain a positive ROI easier because the variance is much lower. If you can learn to regularly beat SNGs your bankroll will be able to withstand the massive variance that comes with MTTs (especially in the stars low buy-ins with 1000+ players).

Also if you find you are cosistantly going deep in MTTs but always coming up short, you're probably playing too tight. I suggest you play a more loose-aggressive style, and do whatever it takes to build up a big stack. Playing this style, you will bust out of a lot of tournies early, but you will also be able to get a dominant stack much more often. Having a sizable stack is important for many reasons. First of all having a lot of chips prevents you from busting out of a tournament on a single hand... meaning you have more freedom to gamble, and if you take a bad beat you'll still be alive. You might make it "in the money" more often playing tight-aggressive, but you will surely have more top 3 finishes if you can play a solid loose-aggressive style, and thats where the money is.

Also, you might want to try playing on a site that has smaller tournies (IE: Bodog, PokerRoom). They dont have near the volume of Stars tournies so the variance is quite a bit lower.

Good luck,
Tom

Re: How long till I win??
 

It was after reading HoH 1+2, I became a better-than-average-player. Read them thoroughly and try to apply the concepts while playing. After some online training, re-read Harrington and you'll pick up things you missed (or didn't fully understand). The best training you can get without spewing money is to play the Stars $4.40 180-man SnG's. Focus on at most two tourneys at one time. As soon as you go out of one, register on the next tourney. You'll probably be able to play 10 of these in one evening.

The next step is probably to watch some of the regulars here play (Rizen, nath, gobboboy, Ansky...), either by reading hand histories, or just logon to a poker site and follow them through a tourney. You'll pick up tons of thoughtful situations and learn why aggression is necessary.

Then, of course, you have to post hands and read posts here daily...

Re: How long till I win??
 

I won the second MTT I played and had a really hot streak at for a couple of months. I don't keep stats, but my ROI must be one of the best out there because I've largely kept within a bank roll and got a relatively huge pay day a few months ago. I'm not a bad player but I am by no means good. However, I do really like the money and when I want a score I generally get one by concentrating very hard and being very wise.

For a start, as Mornelth says, play smaller fields if you want to win money. I'd love to take down a big MTT and dabble with the Stars rebuys. But, seriously, given that you won't be one of the best ten of the 1500 players playing, your chances of sucking out and successfully coinflipping for seven hours, are miniscule. Last night, I hammered successive tables at in the Stars $3r, but finished just ITM with three bad beats in two orbits.

So, find smaller tournies on smaller sites. Shop a round, see what suits. Stars has a good range of SnG tournies. Crypto has terrible players and small fields. Ladbrokes doesn't have blinds. I suggest finding a tournament that suits your roll and your play and sticking to that until you win.

I also back the advice of mixing up your play. Playing STTs is great practice for understanding bubble play and patience. Play some cash games to understand post-flop play. Try other games to give you a better sense of betting.

The other thing to remember is that the the most profitbale play in the long run is often high variance. This can be avoided while you are learning the trade and I would suggest that Tournament Poker for Advaned Players is the most useful in this regard. There is, especially in a small and fishy field, of playing tight and waiting for big hands. One in a while you'll hit a great run of cards and end up at FT. If you are good at STTs, then it's easy enough to take down a score.

However, in the long run, you have to make riskier plays to make more money. For example, the guy who is in your big blind when you a small blind, is very loose, aggressive and mouthy. He evidently hates it when you raise him. He has a big stack. Now, you can leave him alone and this will lower your variance or you can attack him knowing that he will play back with a marginal hand, thus increasing your variance, but in the end, increasing your profit.

Lastly, really think about what you are doing at all times and why. Weak players genreally bet to protect their hand, and slow play to trap. Don't make this mistake. Bet to make money. Bet all the time when you have good reason to think you are ahead. Don't bet for information. Don't bet to protect your hand. Bet to get value when you are ahead.

Re: How long till I win??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ive been playing for 12 months with around 1200 mtts played (fields of 50+)buy ins $1 to $5 & FR's.Ive had 26 wins & 95 FT,s............

.......I dont feel I have the skills or confidence to enter any of the higher buy in MTT's.

[/ QUOTE ]


you seem to be wildly over estimating the talent level found in higher buy in mtts. if those numbers are accurate, you have to have a hatred of money or something

Re: How long till I win??
 

i've had the same problem of goin far often but not being able to have big cashes,i used to play conservative from the beginning to the end of an MTT.Since a couple months i've open up my game especially when antes kicks in and i've seen major improvements in the results.

I like these advices from Strassa2 btw
1.Play your best game
2.Expect to lose

also reading HOH1&2 is a really good thing it can only benefit.

Re: How long till I win??
 

Question: What defines a "real" MTT? Over 100 enterted? Over 1000 entered? Just wondering.
Here's my 2 cents and results.
Get hungary. Do not accept losing any $$$ a month. I started out just over a year ago with a $100 buy-in that I REALLY couldn't afford, and especially couldn't afford to lose. I read HOH 1 & 2. I played $5 SNGs on Party for about 2 months, got up to $400 and started playing the $5, 10, and 20 MTTs.
I've made many final tables, and finished 1st a few times. My best payout was $4400 I made in the Party 500k via a $10 satelitte for my $215 buy-in. I finished 14th out of 3000+.
Last weekend I finished 1st and 3rd in the Stars $20 180 MTT, and 1st in a Party $10 with 150 entered. Definitely my best weekend so far.
I gotta say I really love the Party $5 speed MTT, I've finished 1st outta 600 there. The speed MTT has helped me with my aggression. Play it and you'll see why.
I just started doing daily balance logs. I'm up over 4k in the last 2.5 months. My biggest loss days were slightly over $100, with usually 1 or 2 a week. Doing the log has helped me loads in holding onto the $ I win. I instantly noticed a trend of big losing days following my big win days.
If I had to guess, I'd say I'm up 10k in a year....and I've probably spent $400 on books in that time. Oh yeah, reading 'em helps.
All boasting aside, my results may not be typical. I'm single and 33, with a day job, and plenty of free time. My home is distraction free. I try to never drink while playing, although I probably smoke more than Bob Marley. I'd say I spend 3 out of 4 weekends playing 12 hours each Saturday and Sunday, and probably play 4 hours each night on most weeknights. I take breaks for walks, and to step back from bad beats. I stay off the phone while playing. In other words, I'm a poker obessed hermit burner. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I just started Poker Tracker, and I can't say its helps my tourney game, but its a neat tool.
Recommendations:
1-Play the Stars small MTTs with 45 max.
This will help with all stages of play, you'll get to the money and the FT more, and this expierence is what you need for future success. I recommend buy-ins for $10 or more. The expierence gained at lower level buy-ins isn't worth much against players with 1/2 a clue. Not that I'm saying all players at this level are clueless.
2-Play more SNGs.
For your skill and your bankroll. If you can't make $ playing these, you are not ready for the MTTS.
3-Play only 1 MTT at a time.
This is crucial for learning the stages of the tourney, and how to read other players.
4-Play some Head-to-Head.
I recommend the Stars $5 (4)person. This totally helped my confidence and skills, and when I find myself at a final table with 5 people or less, I feel comfortable. That's been crucial.
5-Buy the books. Read the books.

Here's a link with good and brief MTT advice, stage by stage.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/multi-tab...ts-page63.html
It helped me focus on stepping up the ladder, where earlier I had been guiltity of playing for 1st only. I found actually focusing on one rung of the ladder at a time really helped me. In a $20 MTT-180 at Stars, I was 19 of 19 ih chips with 19 left. 18 make the $. Well, I was the low man on the totem pole all the way to 3rd, made $400, but 2 months ago I woulda flamed out a lot earlier trying to becoome chip leader with 10 left.
Alright, there's my rambling 4th of July advice.
Good luck Coldwolf.

Re: How long till I win??
 

If you are playing tournes with 150+ players, it could take a really long time to get a first. I would say that i am a very good player, supporting myself thru my play, and i only got my first 1st about a month ago (1 year of play). Lots and lots of final tables and so forth, but 1st is tricky. I would estimate that i played about 300-400 MTTs before winning one. I've also read ALL the good poker books and am a chess master [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

if you really want a win, i would suggest playing the 99player max games (available i think from $11-33 on partypoker). Not sure on the math (and it varies obviously based on your ROI), but i would think you could hope to win one within 30-40 tries, if you are good enuf to do so.

Of course variance says that you could probably play a few hundred and never win one.

gluck.

Re: How long till I win??
 

finally finished my 10 tourney sampling:
$1 45 player sitngo -3rd- place guy hit 2 outer on me
$1 45 player sitngo-32nd-got smooth called by AA
$5 45 player sitngo-8th-my KK lost to 77 due to 4 hearts
$4 180 player sitngo-4th-lost to pocAA
$6 50 player sitngo-17th-poc9s vs.pocJJs allin PF on button
$6 50 player sitngo-3rd-flopped 2pair...trip5s killed me
$6 30 player sitngo-6th-pocAA kills me again
$5 27 player sitngo-3rd-lower kicker
$6 20 player sitngo-2nd-disconnected during heads up
$6 10 player sitngo-4th-pushed JJvsA10 preflop
Soooo had 8 final tables out of 10
Cashed 5 of 10 tourneys
Bubbled 2 cashes



winnings $161.10 minus $47.40 entry fees=$113.70 net profit
WHAT A GRIND......NOT FUN...I would not play every day even if you promised me these results.I want to put up 5 t 20 bucks and maybe hit 4 grand...or hit 5% of the final tables I play in MTTs ..Or ive been thinking...what aboutsatilites to the 100 to 200.00 tourneys?Can I get decent cashes if I win a qualifier to a big tourney???If it pays 248 places and its a decent chunk ...id be happy....No way can i play this sng nitemare till i get 200.00 and enter the 200+15 tourneys..ZERO fun..Almost finished HOH#1...got HOH#2 sittin here..(drool....)
Question #1 do I play satellites,rebuys.etc..to Qualify for big tourneys..and then try to concentrate hard and finish in the money,becoming progressively better?
#2 play larger entry fees $20 to $100 with fields of 90 to ??and pray the sharks dont eat me?
#3 Keep pluggin with the daily 3 to $5 dollar MTTs losin a few HUndred a month and Ill start hittin soon?
Please tell me if there is sites other then pokerstars and partypoker that have good MTTs I might try.
Thank you for your continued (this guy is SUCH A DONK patience)My long term goal on my 1000th post is to be whining:"I get to all these final tables but just cant get 1st everytime,what should I do??"LOL

Re: How long till I win??
 

You're getting some decent finishes in the micro level donkfests. If you have trouble closing out a tourney with the final 3 or 4 players- the 6man sng's are great practice for this.

I've been playing NL cash games and STT's for 3 years- i've always taken random shots at MTT's. I started playing Bodog, and took a shot at their daily $15 tourney- $2k guaranteed last November. There were 220 runners and I took first. I came into my first final table as CL- and i closed it out for $1100. Previous to this- I'd only had a few 1st tier payouts. I started playing alot of their daily $5's and 10's, and I won them each within the next few weeks, the largest field being 340. It was a good run. But then I nearly busted my bankroll trying to only play MTT's and playing higher buyins. I had had some wins and success- but I really didn't 'know' what i was doing. I then read HOH 1 and 2 -built back up thru Sng's and started playing some bigger fields on Party and Stars.

I had some mixed success until May when I hit 6 FT's between Stars, Party and Bodog. Had a few 1sts in the lower buyins, but busted out early in the >10k prize pool tournies. It was a good month, and I've transitioned ot 90% MTT's.

You should try the Bodog tourneys- lots of overlays, and fields between 160-350, but you should really make sure you fully understand the game. Read your HandHistorys, read other players HH's too, jsut keep learning and trying to make sense of what players are doing, and you'll eventually hit something good.

Re: How long till I win??
 

I can promise you worse results. You ran better than you normally will.

Re: How long till I win??
 

I'm actually pretty suprised how long a lot of you have played without winning.

Before I became a "serious player" I used to play big $6-33 MTTs on party and never did good, barely squeezed into the money a couple times. I then started playing cash games and abandoned tournaments. I did really well on cash games and eventually was able to survive with it being my sole income for almost a year playing 6max limit games on party.

Then a couple months ago I met an old friend who has been living off poker for about 3-4 years, doing very well. He told me he switched to big tournaments on party a while back. He won a couple big ones like the Supers and $200+ buyins.

So he got my curiosity about tournaments going again and I started playing a few. I did good right away, getting to 2 final tables, then winning 3 within a couple weeks. The last being a $162 buyin that paid $12k. I hit a long nothing streak of around 100 MTTs of nothing until a got a 3rd place a week ago and a 1st place today on a $109 that paid 7k. As I write this I'm at a final table of a $33 limit tourney as the chip leader.

I think if you've been playing for 1-2 yrs and haven't won once, or haven't hit at least top3 twice....you've gotta be playing to lose.

Re: How long till I win??
 

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Here's a link with good and brief MTT advice, stage by stage.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/multi-tab...ts-page63.html
It helped me focus on stepping up the ladder, where earlier I had been guiltity of playing for 1st only. I found actually focusing on one rung of the ladder at a time really helped me. In a $20 MTT-180 at Stars, I was 19 of 19 ih chips with 19 left. 18 make the $. Well, I was the low man on the totem pole all the way to 3rd, made $400, but 2 months ago I woulda flamed out a lot earlier trying to becoome chip leader with 10 left.
Alright, there's my rambling 4th of July advice.
Good luck Coldwolf.

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I do not like the MTT advice given in that thread. For example, big stacks, or anyone, playing tight/passive at the start of a final table is exactly the type of opponent I want and exactly the style I try to avoid playing.

Also, tight/passive early seems to be a recipe for being a pushbotting shortstack no matter what later. You need to grab chips if you want to accumulate chips. Sooner or later, you have to accumulate chips to beat the escalating blinds. This advice seems to be good for a player that doesn't know how to play deepstacked no limit at all.

My respectful disagreement

Re: How long till I win??
 

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winnings $161.10 minus $47.40 entry fees=$113.70 net profit
WHAT A GRIND......NOT FUN...I would not play every day even if you promised me these results.I want to put up 5 t 20 bucks and maybe hit 4 grand...or hit 5% of the final tables I play in MTTs

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I think you've got to stop this thinking. You gotta learn how to walk before you can run. Look upon the small tourneys as training and you'll eventually get better. This week I have won 2 out of 6 $4 180-man SnG's for a total of $432. Also, I won a lot more than that when I finished 2nd in a bigger tourney but I'm just as happy (maybe even more happy) about my two 1st places. Winning a tournament is better for your confidence than big cashes. Your main focus should be to improve your tournament skills, not just take down a huge pay-out once in a while. With increased skills, 4-figure cashes comes naturally. 4-figure cashes --> happy wife [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If I play 25 tournies a week, 17-18 of those are small ones even though I'm bankrolled for higher buy-ins. View the small ones as serious training sessions and apply the concepts when you play big tournies. I can't stress enough how great these 180 man SnG's are for practise.

Re: How long till I win??
 

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WHAT A GRIND......NOT FUN

[/ QUOTE ] dude, if it's not fun, why are you playing?

Re: How long till I win??
 

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Also if you find you are cosistantly going deep in MTTs but always coming up short, you're probably playing too tight. I suggest you play a more loose-aggressive style, and do whatever it takes to build up a big stack.

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This is too one-sided of a view. I think both styles of play have their merit. Tight and Loose. Every time I have problems and get upset with myself about playing "stupidly", I re-evaluate and actually "tighten" up my game. Most recently, I had been running bad for a few days (really playing bad, mostly), so I decided to start with the basics and tighten up my starting hand requirements and the very same night, I finished 1st in a $3 tourny on Stars. So, really what I'm trying to say is it's not about playing "looser" or even "tighter", but it's about playing smarter. For instance, limping in with a suited connector can pay off big dividends, but is so much less profitable if you are first in. The implied odds are so much greater limping behind MULTIPLE players. This is where playing smarter comes in. If your playing so many hands, hoping to hit a big hand then you are simply bleeding off chips. Look for specific situations and play position.

TAG and LAG are just simply 2 different styles. One is not necessarily more profitable than the other. You simply have to know how to apply both styles of play.

Keep reading up, keep posting and keep re-evaluating your game. Plug the leaks. Play the math and the situation and you'll get there. Just posting here shows you have a willingness to learn. Good luck.

Re: How long till I win??
 

I agree that advice is pretty bad. Playing tight passive is pretty much always bad. Tripling up early is very doable in a lowish buy in tourney. Then you actually have enough chips to abuse the tight passive players in the second hour.
I do sometimes slow down at the final table when I have a ton of chips but that is because I was playing so laggy at the final table bubble that I should slow down. But I slow down to tight aggressive not tight passive.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Here's a link with good and brief MTT advice, stage by stage.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/multi-tab...ts-page63.html
It helped me focus on stepping up the ladder, where earlier I had been guiltity of playing for 1st only. I found actually focusing on one rung of the ladder at a time really helped me. In a $20 MTT-180 at Stars, I was 19 of 19 ih chips with 19 left. 18 make the $. Well, I was the low man on the totem pole all the way to 3rd, made $400, but 2 months ago I woulda flamed out a lot earlier trying to becoome chip leader with 10 left.
Alright, there's my rambling 4th of July advice.
Good luck Coldwolf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not like the MTT advice given in that thread. For example, big stacks, or anyone, playing tight/passive at the start of a final table is exactly the type of opponent I want and exactly the style I try to avoid playing.

Also, tight/passive early seems to be a recipe for being a pushbotting shortstack no matter what later. You need to grab chips if you want to accumulate chips. Sooner or later, you have to accumulate chips to beat the escalating blinds. This advice seems to be good for a player that doesn't know how to play deepstacked no limit at all.

My respectful disagreement

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How long till I win??
 

If you want to learn the fundamentals of big MTT I would suggest the 4/180's on stars. It will show you how to survive the minefield at the beginning, why it is important to steal blinds during the middle and late game, and what it takes to finish a tourney. I played about 20 MTT's on stars before the 4/180's were introduced and played about 20 of those without cashing once. I subscribed to 2+2 and the very next tourney I won. Since then I have a couple of wins, a 3rd and a bunch of 6-18. Keep reading, studying, putting your 2 cents in, get flamed, but don't get discouraged. See you at the tables.