pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

villain is 20.65/13.77/4.75 over 275

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

i'd prob call the turn here and call the river u/i, but i'm a puss.

There are an awful lot of hands the BB could be betting here that you beat, such as his pair + straight draw on the flop turned into 2 pair on the turn.

Also, consider that if he had an A, would he be more likely to c/r the river rather than bet.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

With an AF like you are calling down and seing a show down. I would be surprised however if your hand is not good because this guy has loose raising standards so he is raising with A/Q. That being said I'm with fat nicky.....calling down.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

I would call and call the river UI. And bet when checked to on the river... you don't want to open yourself up to a 3bet on the turn.

Haupt_234

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

what do you guys think of this logic? since he called pf, i don't really know quite what he has, but he probably doesn't have a big ace as his pfr is high enough that i think he'd go ahead and three bet AK, AQ, and maybe even AJ (but probably not AJ). the flop c/r makes me think he has something more like KQ/KJ/KT/QJ/QT/JT. turn donk made me think he improved to two pair or was trying to bet a scare card.

from that thinking, i raised.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

I think raising this turn opens you up to an expensive 3bet too much.

Either you are way ahead (his two pair is drawing dead to you) or you are behind and need to fill up. Taking the cheap single bet on the turn to see the river is not bad for you, and doesn't usually help him if he's behind.

I'd call the turn and call the river UI. If checked to on the river, I'd bet.

If I fill up on the river, jam til it's capped.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

That turn sucks.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

i don't really understand your logic. whatever you think he might have, he leads the turn after you 3 bet with 4 to broadway present. yes, you still MIGHT have him beat, but, with that lead i would maybe think he has a,x(hearts) or something else that has you beat. even if you raise, i don't see him calling the river with two pair because it looks like for sure you made broadway...

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

I was thinking the same thing about opponent's range. Ace or nine holdings are limited given PF call + flop CR-call. Most likely, he had a strong draw with the Q already in his hand, and possibly a pair on the side, or two pair.

But I'd still call down.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

Nice dog

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
But I'd still call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. If someone was acting after me, I'd have to think twice about this, but heads-up, I'm calling.

Additionally, if you fill-up, you can often expect to get at least two bets on the river here.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

The only hand I can think of that you would like him to fold is the sucker end of the straight.
Seems like an easy call on the turn and call the river UI.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't really understand your logic. whatever you think he might have, he leads the turn after you 3 bet with 4 to broadway present. yes, you still MIGHT have him beat, but, with that lead i would maybe think he has a,x(hearts) or something else that has you beat. even if you raise, i don't see him calling the river with two pair because it looks like for sure you made broadway...

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so it seems like everyone here is thinking some variant of, "hero had 3b on scary board, turn makes a 4 card sraight , villain is not scared, hero must be behind."

i'm arguing that if you look at the card that came off, think about what villain did throughout the hand and what he could possibly have, i feel that hero is ahead a good portion of time.

his stats are taggish on the loose and aggressive side. name a hand that calls preflop and finds this board c/r'able from a UTG raiser.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

easiest. calldown. ever.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

hmm when the turn hits any A or 9 has the str8, and since the Ace is such a popular card i think you call down here. You're calling 1 BB with many outs, and any face will give you a boat, and an Ace will at least let you chop. I dont see how you can let this one go here.

Also... is there any chance of a raise on the turn to hopefully free SD if hero doesnt hit?

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

Free showdown? The only hands that will give a free showdown if the OP doesn't improve are ones that he has beat. No way, unless the turn bettor only has a 9. An ace will 3-bet. Even a 9 might 3-bet if he is crazy enough. He gets a free showdown from a pair/2-pair/worse-set. So when he is ahead, he makes the same amount of money (unless of course the board pairs), and when he is behind he loses 2 more bets.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
name a hand that calls preflop and finds this board c/r'able from a UTG raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJh (A9h too).

Okay, silly challenge aside (you said youself he probably doesn't 3-bet AJ)...

Lots of hands holding an A (and some with a 9) would call 1 more in the BB, even against an early raise. Some people even think "Well, I can't let him steal the blinds" despite the raise coming from UTG+1. Lots of hands can C/R this flop, given your early raise and it being heads-up (where a follow-up bet from the raiser is a given). The aforementioned As and 9s, any flush draw.

Nobody's saying you're not ahead. But the prospect of being 3-bet sucks (you're very likely behind, and you can't fold), and someone on the loose/aggressive side of things is certainly capable of 3-betting.

Don't be so defensive. You asked for input, and are tossing it out because it doesn't agree with what you came in wanting to believe (I raised, and I was right to do so).

I don't think you're ahead as often as you think you are. Look at it from his position. You raised PF, you bet/3-bet the flop. What does he think YOU have that he would bet that turn? He has to at least expect a raise is possible.

Re: pp 2/4: top set KK OESD broadway board
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
name a hand that calls preflop and finds this board c/r'able from a UTG raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJh (A9h too).

Okay, silly challenge aside (you said youself he probably doesn't 3-bet AJ)...

Lots of hands holding an A (and some with a 9) would call 1 more in the BB, even against an early raise. Some people even think "Well, I can't let him steal the blinds" despite the raise coming from UTG+1. Lots of hands can C/R this flop, given your early raise and it being heads-up (where a follow-up bet from the raiser is a given). The aforementioned As and 9s, any flush draw.

Nobody's saying you're not ahead. But the prospect of being 3-bet sucks (you're very likely behind, and you can't fold), and someone on the loose/aggressive side of things is certainly capable of 3-betting.

Don't be so defensive. You asked for input, and are tossing it out because it doesn't agree with what you came in wanting to believe (I raised, and I was right to do so).

I don't think you're ahead as often as you think you are. Look at it from his position. You raised PF, you bet/3-bet the flop. What does he think YOU have that he would bet that turn? He has to at least expect a raise is possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry it came out that way. for the most part, that's just how i type. i was just trying to get discussion going. thanks for the input all.

Results: hero raises, villain 3-bets, hero calls. river is a blank. villain bets, hero calls, villain shows A4o and MHING.