Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Yesterday on PS i was playing 1/2 nl and i was dealt pocket aces. Player utg went all-in and three players behind him called I was chip leader and i didnt feel like losing my stack so i folded i told the table of my play and they made fun of me was this a correct play?

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Unless you read these players as playing absolute junk, you probably had them all dominated, in that most of the cards that make their hand will make a better hand for you.

The odds that your hand holds up would certainly justify the call with roughly 4-1 odds (depending on the other chip stacks).

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday on PS i was playing 1/2 nl and i was dealt pocket aces. Player utg went all-in and three players behind him called I was chip leader and i didnt feel like losing my stack so i folded i told the table of my play and they made fun of me was this a correct play?

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You're not playing a tournament, so the fact that you're "chip leader" means virtually nothing (and it wouldn't mean enough in a tournament, either). Folding AA there is giving away money. Besides, this situation is exactly the one you want to find yourself in when you have everyone else covered, in order to maximize your winnings!

Edit: If you only win 25%(and you'll win a lot more than that) of the time, you should make this play every single time you have the opportunity to do so. If you don't understand why this is the case, you still have a lot to learn about poker. Luckily, you've come to the right place. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Against 4 reasonable hands (KK, AQs, JTs, 76s), your aces win 41% of the time getting 4:1

If you thing folding there was a good idea, then never play poker again.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Not only was folding aces a horrible play, admitting to the table that you did so was about the only move that could have topped it! Use the search engine to find other posta regarding pocket aces, I think reading them will help you understand why this was an unbelievably bad play.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Hypothetical:

You're playing the 2006 WSOP Main Event, 10 places from ITM with the same situation. Do you fold them here?

In a ring game it's a no brainer.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Ha-ha!

The only time that folding AA preflop might possibly be a conceivable move is when:

You're in a tournament at the final table, and several of your opponents move all-in, essentially guaranteeing you third place or better if you stay out of the hand, but threatening to bust you or decimate your stack if you get involved because your chances of winning are reduced to below 50%. In a case such as this, the ability to survive outweighs the awesome odds you're getting and the fact that you're a big favorite.

In a cash game, it is never correct to fold AA before the flop, even if all nine of your opponents move all-in in front of you.

The only exception might be if you were playing on a very limited bankroll (which brings the question of survival into play, just like in a tournament), but in that case you shouldn't be playing no-limit.

Folding AA preflop is a scared money move, and telling your opponents you did it only encourages them to play more aggresively with you.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Okay, okay... this was not a good play. It happens. I would have to counter OrangeKing in the statement that being chip leader "means virtually nothing" in a ring game. In fact, having the big stack at the table is a huge assett, but you didn't get that big stack by making bad plays.

Now, when would be a reasonable time to fold the best hand? The only time I can think of is when you are positive that you have a better than 80% chance of beating the other player out of his or her chips in the long run. The only problem with this is that a player that has slid all the chips in is likely to keep doing it, especially if it worked against you the first time. So, I would almost never fold them.

Well... Imagine being at the end of the WSOP Main Event, there are three of you left and you are in the BB with AA. The under the gun player goes all-in and the button calls with an almost equal sized stack...

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

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Unless you read these players as playing absolute junk, you probably had them all dominated

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You still have them dominated. Never fold AA pf. There are some hypothetical situations where it MIGHT be right to do so, but odds are you (or I or anyone else) will never be confronted with such a situation. So never do it.

JKratzer

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

[ QUOTE ]

The only time that folding AA preflop might possibly be a conceivable move is when:

You're in a tournament at the final table, and several of your opponents move all-in, essentially guaranteeing you third place or better if you stay out of the hand, but threatening to bust you or decimate your stack if you get involved because your chances of winning are reduced to below 50%. In a case such as this, the ability to survive outweighs the awesome odds you're getting and the fact that you're a big favorite.

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No it doesn't, are you mad? If you fold you might have a better chance at 3rd place (maybe the lowest stack wins, 2nd lowest takes side pot and big stack loses, then your back to same number of opponents and you folded aces) whoever wins the pot will most likely have a dominiating stack diminishing your chances as first (the big payout), if you push with aces you are a favorite to win a big stack no matter what and a favorite to make first place

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

I think it's been discussed numerous times and mostly accepted that the only time to fold AA preflop is a very specific situation on the bubble in a satellite where the prize pool is all or nothing and there is a very short stack at the table.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

this is hilarious. i need to follow this up with my own question. if nine ppl went all in in front of you and the 9th player to do so showed you AA, would you call with AA? What if he threatened to kill your mother if you did? What if you had a exactly 374.2 big blinds? Sorry. I can't stop laughing. This is a dream scenario.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Err never ever will I fold AA preflop in a cash game no matter the circumstances. Except if I knew the guy would kill me after I beat him. Then I may think a bit. Then admitting you folded AA was almost worse. That's just my opinion, I never talk about my hands at the table. No Point.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

i got bored and did a pokerstove analysis. AA vs AA vs KQs vs JTd vs 98c vs 76h. AA is only 15.1% equity, while putting in more than 16% of the money in the pot. If every player showed you this, easy fold.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

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i got bored and did a pokerstove analysis. AA vs AA vs KQs vs JTd vs 98c vs 76h. AA is only 15.1% equity, while putting in more than 16% of the money in the pot. If every player showed you this, easy fold.

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Probally the most retarded analysis ever.




ummmm no

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

why no?

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday on PS i was playing 1/2 nl and i was dealt pocket aces. Player utg went all-in and three players behind him called I was chip leader and i didnt feel like losing my stack so i folded i told the table of my play and they made fun of me was this a correct play?

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poker is not for you. the end.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

It would depend on my chip stack and if I am struggling to make the cut. If I am pretty much guaranteed to make it without pushing this hand, I probably fold. But, that's cuz I am a novice and would be glad to just make the cut. If the player was someone who was looking to place high in the tourney, I am sure they would go to the felt given that scenario. I agree, in a ring game this should NEVER be folded.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hypothetical:

You're playing the 2006 WSOP Main Event, 10 places from ITM with the same situation. Do you fold them here?

In a ring game it's a no brainer.

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No, but if it was a satellite (where finishing first was no better than just making the money), then yes.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

no. That's equivalent to passing up an offer that pays 15:1 whenever you roll a 6 on a die. Sure, you'll lose more than you win, but in the long run, you'll be way ahead when you put your money in. That's what poker is all about. I hope you learned something.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

most donkey play i've ever heard of.

I especially like where he throws out later in this thread the fact that he didn't get his big stack by making bad plays and that if he calls here and loses, he will lose his big stack which is such an asset. Jesus.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

It's a call regardless of whether it's the WSOP ME or a $10 on 'Stars.

You play to win.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Sorry everyone is giving you such a hard time about this. But it is a terrible fold. Plug some of your oppoents' likely holdings into pokerstove and you'll see why. Even if you know for a fact that someone else has AA you should still call.

As someone already pointed out it is possible for your oppoents to have hands such that you should fold. But even if your oppoents held such hands calling would be a very small mistake. If they didn't hold those hands calling would be a very large mistake. So you'd have to be able to say your oppoents had the very unlikely holdings descibed by an earlier poster the vast majority of the time. Short of seeing your oppoents' cards this isn't possible.

"Folding pocket aces is -EV"

-Bill Fillmaff

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Troll.

He states he was playing 1/2 NL and then states he was "chipleader" as if it was a tournament.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday on PS i was playing 1/2 nl and i was dealt pocket aces. Player utg went all-in and three players behind him called I was chip leader and i didnt feel like losing my stack so i folded i told the table of my play and they made fun of me was this a correct play?

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All the vitriol aside...how did the hand end up?

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

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All the vitriol aside...how did the hand end up?

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Completely irrelevant to whether or not such a play is good or bad.

I still stand by my "troll post" assesment though (aka this didn't happen)

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

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[ QUOTE ]
All the vitriol aside...how did the hand end up?

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Completely irrelevant to whether or not such a play is good or bad.

I still stand by my "troll post" assesment though (aka this didn't happen)

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Thought the post was to someone else...but thanks for the reply. I know it is irrelevant was just curious..so STFU unless something is requested from you.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

i would have won the hand with aces full

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

if you like throwing profit, then good fold

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

I've never understood why trolling is fun.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

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I would have to counter OrangeKing in the statement that being chip leader "means virtually nothing" in a ring game. In fact, having the big stack at the table is a huge assett,

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The reason you want this big stack is so that you can call in this situation.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

Nat

pokenum -h ac as - kc kd - qc qh - jh jc - ts th
Holdem Hi: 850668 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 376535 44.26 470709 55.33 3424 0.40 0.443
Kc Kd 157255 18.49 689989 81.11 3424 0.40 0.186
Qc Qh 124431 14.63 722813 84.97 3424 0.40 0.147
Jc Jh 99888 11.74 747356 87.86 3424 0.40 0.118
Ts Th 89135 10.48 758109 89.12 3424 0.40 0.106

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

might as well fold K's and Q's too. They're -EV

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

yeah, in a cash game you should never fold AA preflop. The only situation where a fold might be correct is if you were in the same position (chip lead) in some type of satellite tournament where like the top 5 places all recieved the same amount of money, and your chip stack was strong enough that your chances of making the money were better than your chance of winning this hand. Even in a tournament with a normal payout, the money is so weighted toward the top that you have to call here and possibly put yourself in an excellent position to win.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

I always fold queens...lol

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

wow....I have lost my share of bad beats with AA, but I would still push all in every single time.

Folding AA preflop is unheard of in a cash game

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

With pocket aces, the board could come down 2-2-2--2--3, and then you'd have the nuts!

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

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why no?

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Because you would run in to a situation like that like 1 in 100,000 times you are dealt AA.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

I'm still new to the game but I play to win money and don't put a lot of value in playing pots against many opponets just for the sake of the cards I hold. I've found it is much too easy to lose a lot of money in a marginal situation (all-in, before the flop, against 4 opponents, even if I'm the favorite) and then have to play a hundred hands to win back what I lost on my pocket AA than to just fold that one hand and take advantage of the next ten hands where I can see a couple of flops for a reasonable investment and continue adding dollars to my stake. How wrong am I? I'm talking about NL ring games, not tourneys. I think there is a time and a place to push any hand including AA, and maybe a time not to push.

Re: Folding pocket rockets pf
 

You're thinking about this the wrong way. Every time you go all-in pre-flop with AA you're making Sklansky dollars. Even if your pot equity is below 50% due to numerous opponents, the profits from your wins will more than make up for your losses.

All-in pre-flop with AA in a cash game is one of the best situations a poker player can be in. Don't ever fold them pre-flop.