.5/1 Correct to peel?
 

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

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PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

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yes, as long as you don't go off on the big bet streets just because your draw got better or you made a pair.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

Yes peeling is fine but if you hit take a WA/WB line.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

Ok pot, makes sence trying to take a stab at it. I would have raised to keep BB out and clear some outs. Then like the others said, call down.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

I fold. Yes the pot is big, but many of your draws are making 2nd best hands, so your only clean outs are runner runner and the odds are just not there for that.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

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I fold. Yes the pot is big, but many of your draws are making 2nd best hands, so your only clean outs are runner runner and the odds are just not there for that.

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We're getting like 13 to 1 on the call. We can pick up an OESD, flush draw, or top pair on the turn. I think this is a must call unless MP is a tight pfr/capper.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

An OESD can complete somebodys straight making it very expensive to draw. the same with the flushdraw. Picking up an A will often make a 2nd best hand, so will a J in addition to completing someones straight or flush. Where break even at best on this call.

In my experience the capping range on 0.5/1 is not very wide.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

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In my experience the capping range on 0.5/1 is not very wide.

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Should be even more true in a 3-way pot out of position. I don't know if calling or folding the flop is correct. I'd prefer to fold myself, but they say I fold too much. In this hand though, I think a fold is in order. The capping range on the average .5/1 player makes this a marginal peel at best, and we aren't closing the action.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

Just because the outs are not clean does not necessarily mean we do not have odds to draw.

How I would count them:

BDFD = 1.5 outs
A = 1.25 outs
J = .25 outs
BDSt8 = .25 outs

Total Outs = 3.25 outs

Outs needed to call if BB folds (13.5-1) = 3.24
Outs needed to call if BB calls (14.5-1) = 3.03

I think we have ourselves a very marginal decision. I usually peel because gambling is fun.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

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Just because the outs are not clean does not necessarily mean we do not have odds to draw.

How I would count them:

BDFD = 1.5 outs
A = 1.25 outs
J = .25 outs
BDSt8 = .25 outs

Total Outs = 3.25 outs

Outs needed to call if BB folds (13.5-1) = 3.24
Outs needed to call if BB calls (14.5-1) = 3.03

I think we have ourselves a very marginal decision. I usually peel because gambling is fun.

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Where did the "Outs needed to call if BB CR" go?

A marginal call often turns into a fold when you are not the one closing the action.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

I made an assumption based on BB's loose-passive pre-flop play that he would be c/r very rarely. You make a good point, though. I am not sure what BB's c/r% would need to be to make this situation a clear fold.

Going the other way (in favor of calling), I forgot to mention the possibility of MP checking the turn and giving us a free card. That's worth a little something.

Still a marginal decision I think.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

I definitely peel here. I won't pop him if I pair up on the turn though.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

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Just because the outs are not clean does not necessarily mean we do not have odds to draw.

How I would count them:

BDFD = 1.5 outs
A = 1.25 outs
J = .25 outs
BDSt8 = .25 outs

Total Outs = 3.25 outs

Outs needed to call if BB folds (13.5-1) = 3.24
Outs needed to call if BB calls (14.5-1) = 3.03

I think we have ourselves a very marginal decision. I usually peel because gambling is fun.

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You totally ignore the effective outs. You still have to streets to come and some of your outs are based on picking up a draw.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

I forget where I read it, but a saying that I like is to the effect of if you don't know whether to call or fold, you should raise. I think raising is better than calling here, but looking at the hand, folding may be the best option.

It doesn't seem like you are ahead of MP very often at this point, and if BB is on a draw, a lot of your backdoor draws could be expensive on the turn. But a raise could protect against some of the weaker BB draws, and could potentially buy you a free card, if you choose.

I don't like any of the options -- folding seems a little weak, calling seems wrong, and raising seems like spewing.

Re: .5/1 Correct to peel?
 

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Just because the outs are not clean does not necessarily mean we do not have odds to draw.

How I would count them:

BDFD = 1.5 outs
A = 1.25 outs
J = .25 outs
BDSt8 = .25 outs

Total Outs = 3.25 outs

Outs needed to call if BB folds (13.5-1) = 3.24
Outs needed to call if BB calls (14.5-1) = 3.03

I think we have ourselves a very marginal decision. I usually peel because gambling is fun.

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You totally ignore the effective outs. You still have to streets to come and some of your outs are based on picking up a draw.

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Just because the outs are not clean does not necessarily mean we do not have odds to draw.

How I would count them:

BDFD = 1.5 outs
A = 1.25 outs
J = .25 outs
BDSt8 = .25 outs

Total Outs = 3.25 outs

Outs needed to call if BB folds (13.5-1) = 3.24
Outs needed to call if BB calls (14.5-1) = 3.03

I think we have ourselves a very marginal decision. I usually peel because gambling is fun.

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You totally ignore the effective outs. You still have to streets to come and some of your outs are based on picking up a draw.

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I also ignore the extra bets we earn when we make our hands. Effective odds work both ways.

The outs I listed above are arbitrary, but I think they are discounted enough to factor in reverse implied odds. For example, the actual odds of hitting a BDFD are (10/47)(9/46) = .0416% or roughly 2 outs on the flop. I have used only 1.5 outs in my calculation.

Peel!

If I am on the wrong path here, please point me in the right direction, preferably with some numbers. Thanks.

-Andrew