I may have got every street wrong.
 

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds.

Results:
Final pot: 9.5BB

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

Why no raise on the turn is what I can't understand. If you aren't appy to see the king you shouldn't have called on the flop. When SB checks that turn to you you have to bet it and put pressure on drawing hands. Just calling the river is fine but please bet that turn. Also FWIW with no diamond and there being the Q out there I might just fold this flop with the preflop aggressor still to act.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

Preflop you got right.

Flop I either raise or fold, depending on reads. Calling is definitely the worst option.

Turn I bet.

River is tough. I so want to fold since he's leading into two players. I doubt I always do, though.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

Well, I wouldn't 3bet pf and I wouldn't fold, so your call is ok. You can't raise the flop and I wouldn't fold there, either, so ok.

The turn you really effed up. This is super easy bet time. Imagine your horror to have that street checked through. Also, you're really protected against a raise even by something like KQ because of that flush coming in.

As played, the river is a bit of a quandary. You aren't closing the action, and the only way your K is good is if SB is desperation-donking something like TT or AJ AND CO doesn't call. I probably fold to this donk and really hate myself for messing up the turn so bad. The greatest factor in favor of a call is that there's no way SB can put you on a K here, so a donk with something stupid is possible. But you're still not closing.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop I either raise or fold, depending on reads. Calling is definitely the worst option.


[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? What on earth is a raise accomplishing? If we get HU with SB, are we checking the turn and calling any river, hoping to snap off a bluff from 23 diamonds or something? I think we can take it as a given that SB is going to see a river here. I can see an argument for a fold, but I think a raise is far, far worse than anything else.

Maybe you misread the hand/action.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

I should clarify that against most line ups I'm just folding. Getting 7:1 on a gutshot and a dirty King on a 2 flush board not closing the action sucks.

Raising cleans up some pair outs if SB is liable to donk light.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

Fold the flop

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

No PT stats or any type of reads makes this hand a bit difficult.

Regardless, I'm raising the flop here most of the time. SB is way more likely to have 66 or Adxd than KQ or 77. So we usually have plenty of outs and some chance that K-hi is either good or can pick up the pot with a bluff. And if CO calls or reraises, then we play a big pot with a draw at the nuts+implied odds...not ideal but could be worse.

Given your flop call, I can't imagine what prompted you to check the turn (afraid of some sort of ill-advised screwplay?) This is a really easy bet. I'd also consider calling a single raise, particularly if it comes from CO and SB folds.

Of course the river is fine--your hand rates to be better than CO (we never got to find out much about his hand because you went limp) and though SB's hand is looking stronger now, we surely have odds to call.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raising cleans up some pair outs if SB is liable to donk light.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but this is still ridiculous. You're saying that either SB or CO has T8, JT, J8, KT, or KJ, and that they'll fold it on either the flop or turn? Or an AT/AK that they'll dump, so spiking the T or K will be good for you?

This seems like really, really weak justification, and when you combine that with the diamond flush and not closing the action, isn't nearly enough to justify a raise.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

The flop call (for an immediate 7:1) with a gutshot and overcard seems kind of loose with the PFR to act behind you and no part of the two-flush. But the biggest problem is that the PFR might pop it, and fortunately that didn't happen.

On the turn, I guess you can get, but I can see why you hesitated to. And that seems to point to a problem on the flop: If CO doesn't raise, he's still going to have our overcard dominated sometimes. Anyway, though, it does seem like betting is best, doesn't it? We've got to hope CO is just sitting on AJ or JJ or something. And, as an aside: Boy, our outs situation is looking difficult to figure out if we get raised.

The river call seems all right to me, but I suppose I'm taking into account what CO did. Surely if you knew he was going to fold, you'd want to call. I don't know how it is on Absolute, but on Party it's gotten to where I'm thinking some of my opponents just think a donkbet is obligatory when the board pairs. But that's mostly HU, but then again this is one of those spots where he might go for a checkraise holding a Q. He's probably got CO on a K (that's what I'd have him on). He could be worried about whiffing, though, I'll admit.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

As far as the flop raise idea goes, it's certainly not my first thought. I'm thinking it mainly has merit if SB is a habitual donker with a draw but checks his made hands.

If we're currently ahead of his draw and we can get HU, we can give ourselves roughly a 50/50 shot at winning. There are a lot of if's in there, though. But raising versus a QJ donk with AT or 66 behind us, well, that would probably be good. The possibilities of being behind an ace-high flush draw even if SB does just have a draw and of the board having hit the PFR are both a bit of a deterrent though, I think.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

Flop raise or call for me. I'll raise if I think PFR can fold AK or whatever when it's two cold to him.

Bet the turn.

I want to fold the river but meh, I could see myself playing it the same.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

I don't mind preflop. The SB calling gives you nice odds to see the flop with a marginal hand out of position against the original raiser (who has a wide range here I'm guessing at Absolute).

The flop is bad though in my opinion. The CO is left to act so you have no guarantee that you're only calling for 1. The SB could have any pair here I think so I wouldn't mind a peel if the CO wasn't waiting around. I'd probably fold as we aren't protecting anything if we raise and the CO is left to act.

I'd bet the turn I guess given the way you played it. That would announce that you have a king (really, what else would you play that way?) and I think it's for value. Their responses would probably be informative as well.

Not sure about the river given how you played. He donk bets into two players who really haven't showed aggression. It's probably a Q. It's an easier play if you raise the turn.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

RDH,

Good point. I just fold, then. Calling still sucks bad.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

Just bet the turn and everything is gravy.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

You think the flop call is gravy? Explain pls

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] It's an easier play if you raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
A good example of raising for information. I have read so many bad ones as of late.

Re: I may have got every street wrong.
 

I'd say it's a good example of value betting.