My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I just recently graduated from college and I took a second major in Philosophy. My thesis was on Nietzsche's failed and consequential relationship with Lou Salome. I've attached the abstract to this post. If anyone's interested in reading it, PM me and I'll send it to you. Its about 45 pages in length so I refrained from posting it outright.

I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Thanks,
Freak


During the year 1882, Friedrich Nietzsche became acquainted with Lou Andreas Salomé through their mutual friend Paul Rée. Nietzsche soon fell in love with her despite his denials to friends. His feelings were unrequited. Out of his failure to win the heart of Salomé, Nietzsche was able to produce Thus Spoke Zarathustra. To demonstrate this conclusion, this paper looks critically at Nietzsche’s thoughts on suffering, pain, friendship, love, Christianity, and conventional morality as espoused in The Gay Science, written prior to his relationship with Salomé. When these attitudes are compared with the sentiments expressed in the letters he wrote to Salomé, Rée, and other friends, we see that despite his defiance of conventional morality, Nietzsche was involved whole-heartedly in a conventional infatuation. The collapse of his relationship with Salomé was devastating and consequential because it forced him to re-evaluate himself, his goals, and his philosophy. This introspection invigorated him and strengthened his ideas as well as kept the integrity of his previous works in tact. The result was the birth of Zarathustra, the main character and mouth-piece of his now further refined philosophy. Included within Thus Spoke Zarathustra are direct references to his relationship with Salomé. By understanding his relationship with Salomé and its consequences, a more complete understanding of his philosophy emerges.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

This looks interesting, I'd like to read it eventually. PM me for email...

What school is this?

NT

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

Interesting topic, but as a Nietzsche reader, I think you are missing some points.

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...we see that despite his defiance of conventional morality, Nietzsche was involved whole-heartedly in a conventional infatuation.

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This doesn't make sense to me. Morality and passion are not one in the same, in fact may be at opposite ends of a spectrum. Nietzsche always embraced the Dionysian spirit of passion, which is perfectly in line with "infatuation" as well as perfectly opposed to conventional morality.

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By understanding his relationship with Salomé and its consequences, a more complete understanding of his philosophy emerges.

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I'm not sure about this conclusion. A heightened sense of awareness can come from suffering, but investigating the source of suffering may have little to do with the output of that awareness. I could be wrong, and I think correlation would be strongest in those with less aptitude for critical thought. But N was quite disposed to critical thought, so I don't think that studying this relationship would provide too much insight into his philosophy. Sadness is the muse of many a writer, but the source of sadness may be a catalyst for the desire for introspection, but not a driver in the result of that introspection. Of course, you seem to have studied this in far more depth than me... that's just my initial reaction to your conclusion without seeing your paper.

Maybe I'm overly judgemental as I think teaching philosophy in an academic manner is fraught with examples where people try to find too much meaning in things to justify their course of study. However, by treating philosophers and their works as the writings of fallible men with external influences, your work seems on the right track.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I think you should look up the varring forms of love that were embraced among the Greeks. For Nietzsche, "philia" or friendship was what he wrote as the highest for of love. This was opposed to the more Victorian, or rather, self-less form of love that was practiced by the later Christian sects.


As for, introspection related to philosophy, Nietzsche himself is pleading for us to look as his life as a reflection of his work (and vise versa). To quote him( and my thesis);

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It has gradually become clear to me that what every great philosophy up till now has consisted of – namely, the confession of its originator, and a species of involuntary and unconscious autobiography; and moreover that the moral (or immoral) purpose in every philosophy has constituted the true vital germ out of how the abstrusest metaphysical assertions of a philosopher have been arrived at, it is always well (and wise) to first ask oneself: “What morality do they (or does he) aim at?”…In the philosopher…there is absolutely nothing impersonal; and above all, his morality furnishes a decided and decisive testimony as who he is, that is to say, in what order the deepest impulses of his nature stand to each other

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The quote is from Beyond Good and Evil... the passages are quoted in my text.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

That quote is the black hole calling the kettle black.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I think it's meant to be a self-referential statement. And the kettle is black.

I agree Lou Salome influenced Nietzsche a lot. But I don't think she helped him strengthen his ideas. Personally I see Zarathustra as the beginning of his decline.

To me Nietzsche's life was a strong refutation of his popular aphorism: "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

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To me Nietzsche's life was a strong refutation of his popular aphorism: "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."



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I strongly disagree. Nietzsche was plagued with illnesses his whole life, and was almost blind in his later years. Yet he didn't let this stop him from producing volumes of work, even at the times he suffered most. He, as much as writer I know of, used his suffering to bring his work to unparalleled greatness.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I agree that Human, All Too Human and the Gay Science were unparalleled. I don't think the same can be said of The Antichrist or Twilight of the Idols. Nietzsche became more and more rigid over time, and lost the playful spirit and poetic approach of his earlier works. He also developed more of an agenda. I think if his later ideas on the will to power and the overman and morality had been expressed with the grace of his earlier thought, they would have had a more profound impact.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I'd love to read this if you feel like sharing nobody, PM me or [email protected]

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I agree that Nietzsche's mental degeneration exposed itself in his last works, and his ego subsequently ballooned out of proportion. Nevertheless, I was responding to your claim that his life refuted the maxim "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger." I think rather his life can be seen as a reflection of the maxim, excepting perhaps his final years, the errors of which can partly be attributed to his burgeoning syphilus, and not to Nietzsche himself. (After all, that maxim does not refer to severe physical illnesses, but rather to setbacks that one can feasibly recover from).

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

Lou Salome, herself had no direct influence on Nietzsche. She was rather indifferent towards him. Everything I've read by her about Nietzsche backs this up.

The crux of my thesis isn't that Lou Salome directly influenced Nietzsche in the way that Newton influenced Einstein. It was Nietzsche's stunted and childish emotions which created an idea of Lou Salome. He fell in love with this idea, it was shattered, and the result was a month long period of reflection followed by a ten day frenzy which produced the first part of Zarathustra. Many of the themes in the Gay Science are revisted again in Zarathustra. Most importantly, the failure of Nietzsche to win Salome kept the integrity of the Gay Science because had Nietzsche consumated his feelings for Salome, it would have destroyed a large portion of his writings on friendship and love.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

His writings on pity, I think, keep the integrity of that aphorism. Given all of the grief, loneliness, physical pains, and blindness he suffered, it would have been incredibly easy for a weaker person to go about in pity for themself. Nietzsche, however, refused to allow these shortcomings to prevent him from his work.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

I agree for the most part, and I think TSZ was good... But I also think it was the beginning of the end. And I think Salome had a lot to do with that. Who knows what would have happened had she responded differently? I don't think it's fair to say Nietzsche would have been destroyed.

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

But did his suffering help or hinder him? And did he or didn't he give in to it in the end?

Re: My Undergrad Thesis on Nietzsche
 

To everyone who's replied,

I didn't forget about this discussion... I just haven't had time as my job search has become a full-time job itself.

Having said that, I'd like to address a point that Madnak brought up. Namely, did Nietzsche eventually give into his suffering and would his life had been better if he had been able to win Salome's heart.

As to the first part, Its my opinion that the suffering in Nietzsche's life provided fuel for his creative fires. Nietzsche himself would claim this and it's a point I make in my thesis.

In response to the second part, I'm of the opion that his life would have been drastically different had he been able to win over Salome. I speculated on this briefly in my thesis. Nietzsche's lonliness is well known. If he were to obtain the relationship he wanted and needed he might not have gone insane. But again, we have no way of knowing this. He very well still might have gone insane (His father died of what was called "softening of the brain") even if he were with Salome, but I certainly think that we'd never have Zarathustra and his last and most productive years would have probably not been as productive or influential.