river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

9 handed bay101 40/80.


I raise in ep with AA. mp cold calls, bb calls.

MP is an older prop. He plays very tight, seems to hand read decent and from what i would guess is your typical straightforward-tight-nitty-live-ok-winning-player.

Flop is 522 rainbow. I bet, mp calls, bb folds. Turn is a J, suit unimportant. I bet, mp calls again. River is a 3, no flush, and I check intending to raise. Muy sexy?

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

i would just bet the river, mp will def call with a hand like 88 but may check thru or fold to a river c/r...his hand seems like it will be a mid pocket pair just about all the time and i think that he will check behind on the river too often...

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

I dunno. This seems like the type of player who always calls with 88 if you bet it, sometimes bets it himself if you don't, and never calls a check-raise.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

I'd prefer a turn CR to a river CR.

-DeathDonkey

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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I'd prefer a turn CR to a river CR.


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Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

who is the prop?

and i'm going to say no, since almost all the props i know in that game (and most people in general) would raise the flop with a pair on the flop anyways. you are going to see a lot of check throughs here.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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I'd prefer a turn CR to a river CR.


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Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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who is the prop?

and i'm going to say no, since almost all the props i know in that game (and most people in general) would raise the flop with a pair on the flop anyways. you are going to see a lot of check throughs here.

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I agree, which made me think it very likely he had a hand like QJs.

Don't know the props name, but he does stand out. He has a beard, pretty talkative, wears sunglasses, has kind of a vietnam vet/bum look.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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who is the prop?

and i'm going to say no, since almost all the props i know in that game (and most people in general) would raise the flop with a pair on the flop anyways. you are going to see a lot of check throughs here.

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I agree, which made me think it very likely he had a hand like QJs.

Don't know the props name, but he does stand out. He has a beard, pretty talkative, wears sunglasses, has kind of a vietnam vet/bum look.

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I've played him. I think CDC's statement applies well to him.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Ok, so we rule out a pair on the flop because he didn't raise, yet he calls the turn on the dry board. Doesn't this narrow down his range a LOT?

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

It does, but it doesn't imply that he will bet with some middle pair hand. He will bet those on the turn, however, I think.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Also even if he checks the turn he was going to fold probably and we have successfully made our AA look like AK which is important because we'll have AK a lot more - stolen from Andyfox.

-DeathDonkey

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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It does, but it doesn't imply that he will bet with some middle pair hand. He will bet those on the turn, however, I think.

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I thought we've concluded that he doesn't have a pair after the flop because he didn't raise. So I guess I'm not sure what you are saying....

my point anyway is that after my turn bet I think he has some sort of JT, QJ, KJ hand the vast majority of the time.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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Also even if he checks the turn he was going to fold probably and we have successfully made our AA look like AK which is important because we'll have AK a lot more - stolen from Andyfox.

-DeathDonkey

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Yes I agree with this, and it's a good argument for the turn checkraise. AFter I chose to bet the turn, however, what do you think of the river cr?

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

I think this is Jerry and I do not ever see him paying off the river CR and see him checking behind almost always due to flop action.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

What do you mean flop action? I bet the flop after raising pf.

AFter that, I get one caller, and I continuation bet the turn, and then I checked the river. I'm not representing a pair, let alone a monster.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

FWIW George, I am following what you are saying in this thread but it seems nobody else is. I can't figure out why not. I am also having a hard time with which hands here he calls the turn with that can't find a bet with on the river. Seems to me a player with these characteristics has a pair and it should really be top pair. I am really interested to know what his hand was so hopefully we will get to know.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Bet the river don't cr here. What is a prop?

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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Bet the river don't cr here. What is a prop?

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You may want to give some reasoning to support your statement.

A prop is someone paid by the casino to play in the games and keep the games from breaking when they get short or start new games. They usually play with their own money.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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It does, but it doesn't imply that he will bet with some middle pair hand. He will bet those on the turn, however, I think.

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I thought we've concluded that he doesn't have a pair after the flop because he didn't raise. So I guess I'm not sure what you are saying....

my point anyway is that after my turn bet I think he has some sort of JT, QJ, KJ hand the vast majority of the time.

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I guess. But he still has to bet those hands, and from what I remember about him and that typical 20 game texture there, I don't think he's betting those hands very much on the river, whereas he'll bet everything on the turn to try to take the pot.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

I disagree. On the turn I can't trust him to bet because his range is still very wide. Doesn't mean the turn checkraise is bad, for the reasons that dd mentioned (might allowing me to pick up a river bet rather than a turn fold, and metagame benefits)

However, on the river, any mediocre prop with an ounce of aggressiveness (this guy has more than an ounce) will value bet a J, because it looks like I have AK, AQ, or TT and below and will pay off. And I think he has a J a great deal of the time.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Sorry for the tangent guys butI'm stuck on this part:

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MP is an older prop. He plays very tight, seems to hand read decent and from what i would guess is your typical straightforward-tight-nitty-live-ok-winning-player.


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What the hell does a "winning" player cold call pf, call the flop AND call the turn with here? I can't think of any hand he has played remotely well here.

I wouldn't play it thisway but I could see AQs not being a horrible cold call if you think there will be mutliple callers, but how do you not raise on the turn here or, failing that, just fold?

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Live games are different from online. You can make mistakes like this and still be better than 80% of the table. Add in your $30/hr in prop pay and boom you are a winning player.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Betting the river is best imo.

He could have many different hands.

He could have a 2 and wanted to keep the tirth player in on the flop and cr on the turn. The 3th player folded, he knew you had a high pp and he didn't want to bet the turn because he knew that you would throwing your money in which he prefered. So he was planning a check raise on the river and this makes it even more profitable for him. So if he had the 2, it was not smart.

He could have JQ or JK. He would not try to bet on the river with a J because you where betting all the time and there is a possible straight on the board. But he might call your bet, so better would be better here.

I don't see him betting with a hand that you can beat especially because it's a good player and a good player would put you on a high pp. But I do see him calling with a hand you can beat. (the Jx)

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

i dont think theres any way he leads out on the river here, and if so its a lot less likely than he will probably c/c a bet, or c/f the river.

i would probably just bet out because you are definitly not going to get paid off from a river c/r unless he puts you on a total bluff.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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Betting the river is best imo,
He could have many different hands.

He could have a 2 and wanted to keep the tirth player in on the flop and cr on the turn. The 3th player folded, he knew you had a high pp and he didn't want to bet the turn because he knew that you would throwing your money in which he prefered. So he was planning a check raise on the river and this makes it even more profitable for him. So if he had the 2, it was not smart.

He could have JQ or JK. He would not try to bet on the river with a J because you where betting all the time and there is a possible straight on the board. But he might call your bet, so better would be better here.

I don't see him betting with a hand that you can beat especially because it's a good player and a good player would put you on a high pp. But I do see him calling with a hand you can beat. (the Jx)

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A deuce is the least likely card for him to hold.

Vs. an utg raiser, the straight is possible but not nearly in my range and the least of his worries.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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i dont think theres any way he leads out on the river here, and if so its a lot less likely than he will probably c/c a bet, or c/f the river.

i would probably just bet out because you are definitly not going to get paid off from a river c/r unless he puts you on a total bluff.

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I am first to act, I don't understand the first part of your analysis.

Also, river checkraisees get paid off, period.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

What Bill is saying is that if you check there is no way that this guy bets and if he does he probably doesn't call your raise. His point is that you are more likely to get a call if you bet out and at least garner one bet. Plus, if it's who I think it is, you would not get called with your checraise unless you were beat.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

What are some hands that he calls the turn with and checks the blank river with?

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

The prop in this hand is definitely a winner in the Bay 101 40-80 game excluding his hourly prop pay.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

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The prop in this hand is definitely a winner in the Bay 101 40-80 game excluding his hourly prop pay.

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Yes, in my description of him I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

I also think this prop is a winning player. Further, I think of all the props, this one is the least likely to pay off a river c/r.

Just bet the river here IMO.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

Geo - I think I played against that prop in the 20/40 game on Sunday. He was the one that folded the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] to the straight flush 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] after the 2nd re-raise.

Re: river checkraise vs. a bay101 prop
 

If i knew he played like that then I hate my checkraise.

Anyway, results - i checked he bet I raised he grumbled and paid off, showing a naked J.