Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

Internet poker has been illegal for a week here now and i havent heard any stories yet. The newspaper said that a guy was going to go play with his laptop on the steps of the capitol until he was arrested, but i never heard a follow up or anything. Has anyone had any problems with websites or anything? Is it just business as usually until the big crackdown?

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

'until' the big crackdown?
I believe this implies that there actually will be one.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

There's not going to be any crack down at all. All indications are that nobody plans on really enforcing the law.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

Since it is a felony, any citizen can make a citizen's arrest. Now that would be pretty funny. I would think at least a couple people would set this up to make an issue of it.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since it is a felony, any citizen can make a citizen's arrest. Now that would be pretty funny. I would think at least a couple people would set this up to make an issue of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how is a "citizen" going to go about getting a warrant to inspect someone's computer or online accounts?

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

I suspect someone else reporting an online-poker player like this will happen about as much as when somebody reports an illegal music downloader (which I assume has never happened, but you never know I suppose).

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

Well i did read an article saying that they had a commitee or something looking into enforcing it on an individual level but who knows what that means. I dont play in big online touraments but doesn't seem possible that if a washingtonian won a 500k or something the site might say well we cant pay you because pokers not legal there...t&c agreement...blah blah? or winning a satalite to a big live tournament. but nothing like that has happened yet i guess. im sure they dont mind while you grind it out and pay the rake.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

This law will probably never actually be used to prosecute anyone.

If someone is caught and charged, I expect the state to immediately offer a plea deal in order to keep from having the law potentially overturned in court.

Other than that, on those rare occasions where they can even catch someone - I don't think the NSA is going to turn over their Net traffic records - I foresee warnings but little else.

The only way it's likely someone will be caught is if a fish loses badly to someone whose location shows as Washington and writes the state AG.

(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Do not interpret the above as viable legal advice.)

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

You know, a test case, kinda like turning yourself in. But if you had a friend arrest you for committing a felony then it might be harder to keep it out of court, where you could then fight to overturn the law.

Perhaps some lawyers will do it.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know, a test case, kinda like turning yourself in. But if you had a friend arrest you for committing a felony then it might be harder to keep it out of court, where you could then fight to overturn the law.

Perhaps some lawyers will do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would still need a prosecutor willing to prosecute the case even if somebody made a "citizens arrest."

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

There was an article in Cardplayer where someone of authority (maybe the State Attorney General?) said flat out that they had no intention of prosectuing individual players.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There was an article in Cardplayer where someone of authority (maybe the State Attorney General?) said flat out that they had no intention of prosectuing individual players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see this. Can anyone confirm and provide a link?

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There was an article in Cardplayer where someone of authority (maybe the State Attorney General?) said flat out that they had no intention of prosectuing individual players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have also heard this. I have also heard that individuals can be prosecuted though. IMHO I really find it hard to believe that any state would take the time to prosecute something like this. Especially if you take into account the tremendous backlog of cases most prosecuting attorneys have. I really don't see anything ever coming of this.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only way it's likely someone will be caught is if a fish loses badly to someone whose location shows as Washington and writes the state AG.

[/ QUOTE ]

How would this work?

Dear Prosecuting Attorney:
AA23coolguy23 Is playing poker illegally within your state.

Sincerely,

Fish.


The pokersites aren't going to cooperate and tell the AG who that user is.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

Nothing is going to happen.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

I saw a guy from Spokane, WA playing the other night. I was tempted to say (after he stacked me) "You know its illegal to play online poker in your state?"

bastard.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

Damn, I looked and cant find the friggin article now.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a guy from Spokane, WA playing the other night. I was tempted to say (after he stacked me) "You know its illegal to play online poker in your state?"

bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah um....dont do that.

If you accidentally tell a fish who would care that it is a felony, and they leave.....you lose. We all do.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

FWIW it's already come out that you probably will not be charged with a felony if you are gambling online in WA state. They will probably charge you with the misdemeanor offense as the felony is mainly intended for actually operating poker sites.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

They've already nailed one guy under the new law...and it gets worse...

They didn't come down on him for gambling, but for TALKING about gambling online. IMO, this is even worse (and likely unconstitutional). The state has even warned Seattle's largest newspaper to stop running Daniel Negreanu's column, because he recommends playing poker online to learn.

If 2+2 was based in WA, Sklansky and Malmuth would be felons.

Seattle Times article

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
They've already nailed one guy under the new law...and it gets worse...

They didn't come down on him for gambling, but for TALKING about gambling online. IMO, this is even worse (and likely unconstitutional). The state has even warned Seattle's largest newspaper to stop running Daniel Negreanu's column, because he recommends playing poker online to learn.

If 2+2 was based in WA, Sklansky and Malmuth would be felons.

Seattle Times article

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that guy got nailed for merely having an affiliate site.
Scary.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They've already nailed one guy under the new law...and it gets worse...

They didn't come down on him for gambling, but for TALKING about gambling online. IMO, this is even worse (and likely unconstitutional). The state has even warned Seattle's largest newspaper to stop running Daniel Negreanu's column, because he recommends playing poker online to learn.

If 2+2 was based in WA, Sklansky and Malmuth would be felons.

Seattle Times article

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that guy got nailed for merely having an affiliate site.
Scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

An affiliate site is much more on the "hosting/promoting internet gambling" end of things than playing is. Ie, it's going to be a much greater offense in the states eyes. And he still didn't get charged.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They've already nailed one guy under the new law...and it gets worse...

They didn't come down on him for gambling, but for TALKING about gambling online. IMO, this is even worse (and likely unconstitutional). The state has even warned Seattle's largest newspaper to stop running Daniel Negreanu's column, because he recommends playing poker online to learn.

If 2+2 was based in WA, Sklansky and Malmuth would be felons.

Seattle Times article

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that guy got nailed for merely having an affiliate site.
Scary.

[/ QUOTE ]
Affiliates are who I've always said they would go over. An affiliate is essentially working for the casino as a freelance marketing guy. They are getting paid directly by the casino for getting players to play. They have been clear that they aren't going to go after players but after the industry and people promoting it. From another article about this affiliate: [ QUOTE ]
The gambling commission's Day said there are no plans to crack down on home gamblers. Instead, the commission will focus on those who profit from gambling, and will likely mount an education campaign to warn online bettors they are breaking the law. But he refused to rule out prosecution of bettors.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that "refused to rule out prosecution of bettors" is just what they have to say here. They can't actually say that there is no chance of individual gamblers being arrested.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since it is a felony, any citizen can make a citizen's arrest. Now that would be pretty funny. I would think at least a couple people would set this up to make an issue of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how is a "citizen" going to go about getting a warrant to inspect someone's computer or online accounts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see one way this would happen. Imagine a divorce/breakup situation where one of the parties tries to get revenge by trying to get the other arrested for illegal online gambling.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a guy from Spokane, WA playing the other night. I was tempted to say (after he stacked me) "You know its illegal to play online poker in your state?"

bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was I playing donktastic? Seriously though I just moved to WA and I think it may be time to leave. This is getting frigging crazy. Something needs to be done fast before somebody gets poked in the eye. Isn't WA suppose to be a liberal state. Guess not. The irony is that there are indian and non indian casinos all over the place but yet it is illegal to place a .05 bet on line.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

As I am seeing this absurdity unfold I just had a thought. I'm wear one of my PartyPoker (.com) shirts today, does that make me culpable under the 'aiding and abetting' rule that they've threatened the Seattle PI with?

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
As I am seeing this absurdity unfold I just had a thought. I'm wear one of my PartyPoker (.com) shirts today, does that make me culpable under the 'aiding and abetting' rule that they've threatened the Seattle PI with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like it.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

i would think twice about filing my taxes as a "professional gambler" in WA this year.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would think twice about filing my taxes as a "professional gambler" in WA this year.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're worried that--in blatant violation of the Constitution--the IRS is going to call up the WA State Gambling Commission and report that a WA resident filed as a gambler and then the state is going to come and seize your computer to look for evidence that some of the gambling was online? And so much so that you think there is actually a smaller risk in lying to the IRS instead? That's sort of silly.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would think twice about filing my taxes as a "professional gambler" in WA this year.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're worried that--in blatant violation of the Constitution--the IRS is going to call up the WA State Gambling Commission and report that a WA resident filed as a gambler and then the state is going to come and seize your computer to look for evidence that some of the gambling was online? And so much so that you think there is actually a smaller risk in lying to the IRS instead? That's sort of silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh...

-i wouldn't be worried about a federal agency reporting to the state that you filed as a professional gambler, since you file with the state already
-i wouldn't be worried about a state raid on your computer, more about an audit where your records of where and when you played would come under question
-i wouldn't be worried about lying to the IRS, i'd give more thought to filing winnings under "gambling winnings"

edit - i guess since you can't be prosecuted for paying taxes on other illegal activities, this wouldn't be any different. i still might consider filing a different way if i lived in Washington.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

<broken record>
1. We don't file with the state of WA becacuse there is not state income tax.

2. Gambling is not illegal is WA and since there is no differentiation between B&M gambling wins/losses and online gambling wins/losses by the IRS you are not implicating yourself in anything even if you file as a professional gambler.

</broken record>

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]

-i wouldn't be worried about a federal agency reporting to the state that you filed as a professional gambler, since you file with the state already
-i wouldn't be worried about a state raid on your computer, more about an audit where your records of where and when you played would come under question

[/ QUOTE ]
File what with the state? The state has no idea what you do for living. You were talking about paying taxes which is something you send to a federal agency. The state does not see it. The IRS is not going to audit you as a way of finding out if you play online so they can rat you out to the WA State Gabling Commission.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a guy from Spokane, WA playing the other night. I was tempted to say (after he stacked me) "You know its illegal to play online poker in your state?"

bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under the law, it appears that you can easily sue for damages and get all your money back.

[ QUOTE ]
(a) Any person who by gambling shall lose to any other person, any sum of money or thing of value, amounting to the sum of $50 or more and shall pay or deliver the same or any part thereof, may sue for and recover the money or other thing of value, so lost and paid or delivered, in a civil action against the winner thereof, with costs, in the circuit court. No person who accepts from another person for transmission, and transmits, either in his own name or in the name of such other person, any order for any transaction to be made upon, or who executes any order given to him by another person, or who executes any transaction for his own account on, any regular board of trade or commercial, commodity or stock exchange, shall, under any circumstances, be deemed a "winner" of any moneys lost by such other person in or through any such transactions.

(b) If within 6 months, such person who under the terms of Subsection 28‑8(a) is entitled to initiate action to recover his losses does not in fact pursue his remedy, any person may initiate a civil action against the winner. The court or the jury, as the case may be, shall determine the amount of the loss. After such determination, the court shall enter a judgment of triple the amount so determined.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
<broken record>
1. We don't file with the state of WA becacuse there is not state income tax.

2. Gambling is not illegal is WA and since there is no differentiation between B&M gambling wins/losses and online gambling wins/losses by the IRS you are not implicating yourself in anything even if you file as a professional gambler.

</broken record>

[/ QUOTE ]

damn, I was just about to write that out, glad I read the last page...


side note: SO GLAD I'm moving back to Idaho.....Washington is -EV

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw a guy from Spokane, WA playing the other night. I was tempted to say (after he stacked me) "You know its illegal to play online poker in your state?"

bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under the law, it appears that you can easily sue for damages and get all your money back.

[ QUOTE ]
(a) Any person who by gambling shall lose to any other person, any sum of money or thing of value, amounting to the sum of $50 or more and shall pay or deliver the same or any part thereof, may sue for and recover the money or other thing of value, so lost and paid or delivered, in a civil action against the winner thereof, with costs, in the circuit court. No person who accepts from another person for transmission, and transmits, either in his own name or in the name of such other person, any order for any transaction to be made upon, or who executes any order given to him by another person, or who executes any transaction for his own account on, any regular board of trade or commercial, commodity or stock exchange, shall, under any circumstances, be deemed a "winner" of any moneys lost by such other person in or through any such transactions.

(b) If within 6 months, such person who under the terms of Subsection 28‑8(a) is entitled to initiate action to recover his losses does not in fact pursue his remedy, any person may initiate a civil action against the winner. The court or the jury, as the case may be, shall determine the amount of the loss. After such determination, the court shall enter a judgment of triple the amount so determined.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, gambling against people from Washington State just became really +EV. (Ignoring the fact that there is no way you could make out a case, or even determine the identity of the person your'e playing against.).

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

nor can you determine if your opponent is actually in Washington when you are playing against him. He could have moved or could just be traveling.

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

You don't need proof beyond reasonable doubt to win a civil case like this. The burdon of proof is "more likely than not". If he registered in Washington, you can convince a judge or jury that "more likely than not" he was playing there.

[ QUOTE ]
nor can you determine if your opponent is actually in Washington when you are playing against him. He could have moved or could just be traveling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw a guy from Spokane, WA playing the other night. I was tempted to say (after he stacked me) "You know its illegal to play online poker in your state?"

bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under the law, it appears that you can easily sue for damages and get all your money back.

[ QUOTE ]
(a) Any person who by gambling shall lose to any other person, any sum of money or thing of value, amounting to the sum of $50 or more and shall pay or deliver the same or any part thereof, may sue for and recover the money or other thing of value, so lost and paid or delivered, in a civil action against the winner thereof, with costs, in the circuit court. No person who accepts from another person for transmission, and transmits, either in his own name or in the name of such other person, any order for any transaction to be made upon, or who executes any order given to him by another person, or who executes any transaction for his own account on, any regular board of trade or commercial, commodity or stock exchange, shall, under any circumstances, be deemed a "winner" of any moneys lost by such other person in or through any such transactions.

(b) If within 6 months, such person who under the terms of Subsection 28‑8(a) is entitled to initiate action to recover his losses does not in fact pursue his remedy, any person may initiate a civil action against the winner. The court or the jury, as the case may be, shall determine the amount of the loss. After such determination, the court shall enter a judgment of triple the amount so determined.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, gambling against people from Washington State just became really +EV. (Ignoring the fact that there is no way you could make out a case, or even determine the identity of the person your'e playing against.).

[/ QUOTE ]

Details, details. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since it is a felony, any citizen can make a citizen's arrest. Now that would be pretty funny. I would think at least a couple people would set this up to make an issue of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of states have laws authorizing "citizen's arrest." I wouldn't suggest trying it, though. If you showed up at the jail with a "prisoner," it's likely you'd be the one getting locked up - not him. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Any Washingtonians have any problems yet or hear anything?
 

Meh. 99% of these "review" sites are just shills for whatever sites are paying them. (I highly recommend ripoff.com, because... I get a big, fat check if you sign up with them!!!")

[ QUOTE ]
What a Bellingham man did on his site was write about online gambling. He reviewed Internet casinos. He had links to them, and ran ads by them. He fancied himself a guide to an uncharted frontier, even compiling a list of "rogue casinos" that had bilked gamblers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I wouldn't shed a lot of tears if the Feds sent a "cease and desist" letter to the lot of 'em.