CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

This will be crossposted on the forums at other sites so sorry for any duplication.

A while back, I, and a number of others were fortunate enough to win tickets to WSOP events through a series of promotions run by CheckNRaise poker, an ongame network (Poker Room) skin. I and a couple of regulars at BW even won ME tickets. The event that I won in particular was listed here, my alias on CnR, is pokerrobr. http://www.checknraisepoker.com/prom...toMillions.php

Well last night I get the following email:
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Hi Rob,

We regret to inform you that CnR will be unable, at this time, to make a lump sum payment for the 10 WSOP seats that were won this year through the “CheckPoints to Millions” and “Freeway to Vegas” promotions on ChecknRaisePoker. However, we plan to make this up to you over the coming months. We will deposit into your player account 5% or more, as cash flow permits, of the value of your entry in monthly installments starting July 31st , 2006 until 110% of the cash equivalent is paid in full.

Unfortunately our cash flow did not allow us to set aside sufficient funds from the time that you won your seat in March. If you plan to attend the WSOP in any event, we wish you the best of luck and we are sure you will have a great time.

Please accept our sincere apologies for having to break this news to you just weeks prior to the event we promised you. Please do not hesitate to contact us by return email, if you have any questions or comments. If you would like to speak to us by phone, please suggest a convenient time and provide a phone number and we would be happy to call you and provide more details and answer any questions that you may have.

Best Regards,

Erez and the ChecknRaise Team
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Now obviously I and the others I've talked to who won CnR promotions are devastated especially so close to the beginnning of the WSOP. Sure I could use the $11K and I most likely would have simply busted out on the first day like most of the field is going to do. But given the choice between $11k and a shot at truly life changing money I would have taken the ticket.

Now the extra $1000 CnR plans to throw our way is fine, but I incurred expenses well beyond this amount. I got a cheap hotel room and that alone is still more than $1000 for two weeks. I bought non-fundable plane tickets, as did my dad who wanted to see me play. I have a baby daughter at home and my father-in-law and a family friend bought non-fundable tickets so they could back up my wife for those two weeks I was gone.

Normally I wouldn't have gone to the WSOP this year, but again, a shot at life changing money was worth it when my wife and I talked it over (and life changing money for me is pretty low, heck, even making it ITM would have helped). We even rearranged work schedules and vacation schedules to accomdate this.

There's no way I can afford to buy my own $10K ticket and certainly not with only vague assurances that I'd be reimbursed. A smaller buy in tournament just doesn't seem worth it to me since I don't care about the bracelet and I could just play one online and not have to leave home.

And frankly the reimbursement rate they suggest is ridiculous. At roughly $500 a month the 2007 WSOP would be long done before CnR was done paying us off. I think $1000 a month is more reasonable and I don't really think an extra $1000 is enough.

There isn't a way to fully compensate us. I don't claim to be a tournament expert though I have some skills but having seen first time B&M tournament amateurs do so well over the last few years, I can't help but feel that a shot at destiny has been torn for me. Even if that destiny was to appear on the NUTS broadcast as the worst loser in the history of the ME (I imagined myself getting tasered in the nuts by Rio security after I slap some old granny for sucking out on me while the rest of the table looks on in horror, hey, I can dream big).

Anyways, it wasn't but a few days ago that I highly recommended CnR to someone in a PM and now they make me look like an idiot. Given the horror stories by folks using the Future Bet skins on the Ongame network it doesn't really seem like Ongame gives a crap what their affiliates/franchise do (CnR is NOT a futurebet skin BTW). I've been a strong supporter of Ongame sites but they really need to start cracking down on these places.

Oh, and anyone want to take odds on whether any of us see a dime from CnR? I expect to get maybe one or two payments and then for there to be a personnel change and no one knows who the hell we all are anymore or why we think CnR owes us money. I am also vaguely curious if CnR intends to run additional WSOP promos for 2007 even while they're still paying off those of us they screwed over back in '06. Keep your eyes peeled for my annual update.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Sorry to hear that.

I was considering opening an account there, now I won't.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

There are multiple credible reports of this same email on other discussion sites. I find that fact that they don't intend to pay even one cent prior to August quite telling. This site should obviously be blacklisted.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

That suuuuuucks.... I'm sorry to hear it man.

Is it possible to buy your 10K ticket with some savings, and as you are slowly paid by CnR deposit each payment back into your savings account? (hopefully they actually will payout that 5% each month, could be a gamble to buy the 10K and than see CnR fold.)

Obviously, I'm sure you've considered that if it's possible, but it would just make me happy to see you reply 'yes,' lol. You must have been so psyched about going....again I'm sorry to hear that man.

I'll avoid CnR from here on out.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

If just making the money (aka 10k) is "life changing" money to him, I doubt he has enough savings to buy into the main event himself.

I too won a WSOP ticket through CheckNRaise, but it actually worked out nice for me since I won one in Stars too, now instead of forfeiting one I get cash for it.

Still sucks tho, looks like nothing you can really do accept take the money

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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If just making the money (aka 10k) is "life changing" money to him, I doubt he has enough savings to buy into the main event himself.

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Um, I'm sure he meant something along the lines of a million dollar payout when he said "life changing money."

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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Um, I'm sure he meant something along the lines of a million dollar payout when he said "life changing money."

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Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

This is just horrible. With what happened on Carnival and Bayou and now what happened here I think this is a lesson to just stay away from PokerRoom until they get their act together and clean up their bad skins. I hope you get your money that you rightfully earned.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I would setup a telephone conversation with them. Explain to them all the preparations you have done. It sucks that you won a seat to the main event, but due to their irresponsible money management, you are now out a seat at the main event, but additional money for hotel/flight/etc.

I would ask for these expenses to be reimbursed. It sounds like you spent roughly 1500 in flight/hotel, which is very reasonable. I would ask for them to give me 1500 up front, then do their idiotic 5% monthly repayment plan.

5% is a joke. You are not a bank.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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Um, I'm sure he meant something along the lines of a million dollar payout when he said "life changing money."

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Normally I wouldn't have gone to the WSOP this year, but again, a shot at life changing money was worth it when my wife and I talked it over (and life changing money for me is pretty low, heck, even making it ITM would have helped).

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Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Rob won the 1st seat.

I won the 2nd.

If they'd offered me the cash upfront months ago, I'd have taken it.

Instead, they let me get all psyched up to play in the WSOP (and tell everyone I know) then crush my hopes.

GG

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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Um, I'm sure he meant something along the lines of a million dollar payout when he said "life changing money."

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Normally I wouldn't have gone to the WSOP this year, but again, a shot at life changing money was worth it when my wife and I talked it over (and life changing money for me is pretty low, heck, even making it ITM would have helped).

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Lol. I was thinking life changing at 1/4 million or so. I could put a downpayment on a house with that here in Miami. Getting my buyin back by finishing ITM means I'd just buy something nice for my family, thus the "helped" part.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Rob, you might want to lay low with the rest of the ten who are in this predicament. Driving business away from them is not going to serve you well in your hopes of getting paid off over the next 20 months.

I understand your anger. But your only hope now is to see them stay in business while they owe you the 11k.

You have to give them credit for being upfront with you about the issue. Most sites wouldn't do that. Admitting a cash flow problem is about as bad as it can get.

Lay low and keep your fingers crossed is what I'd do right now.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Or you could take the 110% and put it aside for next years WSOP. I am pretty sure there is one every year.

No doubt this doesn't look good, but its not like you are getting stiffed. They are open and honest and will make it back to you with a little extra for the time and trouble.

And since your odds of making any money are pretty slim your family will be better off with the 11,000 as opposed to you blowing it on a longshot chance at big bucks.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I think Rob is doing everyone a public service by notifying us of problems at checknraise.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I have to respect you warning us to stear clear of the site since driving down there business is a sure way of not getting paid.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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I think Rob is doing everyone a public service by notifying us of problems at checknraise.

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i agree that people should be made aware of financial problems at all sites. But its not going to do him any good and its not like he isnt getting compensated pretty fairly.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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Or you could take the 110% and put it aside for next years WSOP. I am pretty sure there is one every year.



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At roughly $500 a month the 2007 WSOP would be long done before CnR was done paying us off.

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Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets (Poll)
 

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No doubt this doesn't look good, but its not like you are getting stiffed. They are open and honest and will make it back to you with a little extra for the time and trouble.

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I'm not sure where you get the idea that they are open and honest. This looks a lot like getting stiffed does. If their cash flow problems are so drastic, it is not clear that they will be in business for the next 22 months.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets (Poll)
 

Note that CnR aren't coughing up a single penny now. If they paid the first installment now, I'd have more faith in their "plan." I'm sad to say it but these people are never getting paid and I wouldn't even be sure that anyone with money on deposit can count on getting it out. They should be congratulated for warning us.

How anyone can think CnR is being "honest" now is a complete mystery to me. The pressure to provide starting dates for the ME and the fact that the first minor events are starting in a couple of weeks forced their hand.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets (Poll)
 

I would agree that 11K for a 10K ticket is a reasonable gesture. The extra $1K doesn't actually cover my expenses, but it slightly exceeds the T&Cs of the promo. But giving the money to us at a trickle over a two year period is sort of BS. And the email only says they'd give us 5% or more, as cash flow permits. Key here is the "as cash flow permits" part. What if the cash flow doesn't even permit 5%? What do we do? Trust that their management can turn things around later when they've botched things this bad already?

I don't know what's going on at CnR so I really don't know if I should expect full payment or not. My assumption is that CnR would prefer to remain in business rather than fail. But are the affiliates who drive business to them and possibly pay high volume players RB going to trust a site with cash flow problems?

CnR may or may not know this information is out there but if not they soon will. And they know, since reputation is everything online, that if they don't make this right, they will suffer for it. If they makes things right with me, I'll even suggest they deserve a second chance. After all, I really liked them prior to this fiasco.

And if they don't start making some good faith gestures soon, I think Ongame needs to take a real good look at the people they license to. And we all know this list is getting longer and longer.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets (Poll)
 

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Note that CnR aren't coughing up a single penny now. If they paid the first installment now, I'd have more faith in their "plan." I'm sad to say it but these people are never getting paid and I wouldn't even be sure that anyone with money on deposit can count on getting it out. They should be congratulated for warning us.

How anyone can think CnR is being "honest" now is a complete mystery to me. The pressure to provide starting dates for the ME and the fact that the first minor events are starting in a couple of weeks forced their hand.

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Exactly, I doubt anyone is going to see any money ever out of this. Saying they will pay more than value for your WSOP ticket is an extremely bad sign.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Unfuckingbelievable! Gimme an email address to these idiots.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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This is just horrible. With what happened on Carnival and Bayou and now what happened here I think this is a lesson to just stay away from PokerRoom until they get their act together and clean up their bad skins. I hope you get your money that you rightfully earned.

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Is there a complete list of PooRoom skins anywhere? I didn't know that Bayou and Carnival were skins of PooRoom (are they?)

"Your excuses are your own" -- Richard Roma

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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This is just horrible. With what happened on Carnival and Bayou and now what happened here I think this is a lesson to just stay away from PokerRoom until they get their act together and clean up their bad skins. I hope you get your money that you rightfully earned.

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Is there a complete list of PooRoom skins anywhere? I didn't know that Bayou and Carnival were skins of PooRoom (are they?)

"Your excuses are your own" -- Richard Roma

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They are. Go to bonuswhores.com, I think thatll give you most of the skins of PokerRoom.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I hope this works out for you -- but I think this is just another example of why we should only stick to the most reputable sites.

Even pokerroom moves down on my list here, just for not having trustworthy skins.

I want to tell you to buy into the main event anyways and let them slowly repay over time in case you busted out, but since they aren't even willing to start making payments now (that, and that the site has been around for awhile now), makes me think you need to wait until you are paid in full, and then use that money to play in the ME the following year.

Sorry man, I hope they are able to atleat pay you what they promised. But if I site that has been around as long as them has to make up some ridiculous payment plan like that, they are in big trouble.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Thats [censored] dude, contact the CasinoMeister.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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This is just horrible. With what happened on Carnival and Bayou and now what happened here I think this is a lesson to just stay away from PokerRoom until they get their act together and clean up their bad skins. I hope you get your money that you rightfully earned.

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Don't forget PowerPlayer also. That network is looking pretty shady right now.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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Rob, you might want to lay low with the rest of the ten who are in this predicament. Driving business away from them is not going to serve you well in your hopes of getting paid off over the next 20 months.

I understand your anger. But your only hope now is to see them stay in business while they owe you the 11k.

You have to give them credit for being upfront with you about the issue. Most sites wouldn't do that. Admitting a cash flow problem is about as bad as it can get.

Lay low and keep your fingers crossed is what I'd do right now.

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good posting.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I guess the moral of the story is to stick with the big sites like PokerStars and PP. Unfortunatly stories like this give the lawmakers fuel for making online gambling illegal in the USA. I am sorry this happened to you and your family.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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I guess the moral of the story is to stick with the big sites like PokerStars and PP. Unfortunatly stories like this give the lawmakers fuel for making online gambling illegal in the USA. I am sorry this happened to you and your family.

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If anything, I would think it should give them fuel to make sites legal in the USA, where we can ensure that the sites are regulated and legit. But that would just be too logical. (Not to mention the billions $$$ of tax revenue they could collect)

I agree with you that our leaders would be more likely to want to make it illegal for reasons like this, but of course I disagree strongly with that view.

But then again, why make Billions.... when you can make... millions???? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I guess there is bad news and good news. The bad news is that you won a seat in the world seats through tournaments using your points and now they have reneged on that. They waited much too long to tell you and you have gone to much expense. The promised monthly payments may or may not happen but I think if we layed odds they are certainly much greater than even money on another reneg and this offer was made only to temporarily save face.
the good news is according to the terms and conditions they could have just cancelled the promo with no compensation. At least you have some hope of getting the money plus a bit more over a ridiculously long period of time. I have played on check and raise in the past but will never play there again and sorry if that effects whether you get your money.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

This does not sound promising.

However I think that as a creditor you may have more leverage than you think. You should ask then for more information, such as what their restructuring plan is and a copy of their latest audited financial statements. And if it's 10k we're talking about, it might be worth at least a preliminary chat with a lawyer, if you know one.

Ultimately, my advice is: don't take a passive stance on this - it's your money, they owe you, and you have the right to take action to get them to pay you.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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This does not sound promising.

However I think that as a creditor you may have more leverage than you think. You should ask then for more information, such as what their restructuring plan is and a copy of their latest audited financial statements. And if it's 10k we're talking about, it might be worth at least a preliminary chat with a lawyer, if you know one.

Ultimately, my advice is: don't take a passive stance on this - it's your money, they owe you, and you have the right to take action to get them to pay you.

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Gambling debts are not collectable. This was a promotion of some sort, but I am guessing it is still a "gambling debt."

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

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This does not sound promising.

However I think that as a creditor you may have more leverage than you think. You should ask then for more information, such as what their restructuring plan is and a copy of their latest audited financial statements. And if it's 10k we're talking about, it might be worth at least a preliminary chat with a lawyer, if you know one.

Ultimately, my advice is: don't take a passive stance on this - it's your money, they owe you, and you have the right to take action to get them to pay you.

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Good luck with this one.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

U.S. lawyers aren't much use in another country.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I hope you dont have any cash in your account there.And never count your money until the cash is in your hand.
I have had a stock broker from a major firm that I bought and sold stocks through, bounce a check they gave me when I cashed out one time. It took me a little over a month to get paid but you dont really expect a major firm to bounce a check with all of the regulatory agencies looking on.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

I'm not too sure to what extent this qualifies as a gambling debt.
I would think that the outcome of a prop bet between two individuals is one matter (definitely a gambling debt), but a tourney where the house (which is not involved in the play) only has to allocate the prize pool to the winners is another. I wonder if this might actually qualify as a "trade receivable" against the firm that runs the poker room.

I'm sure there are plenty of cases to refer to that can clear the doubts, but I still think that trying to put some pressure on the firm towards disclosing the true status of their finances and their plans would be in order.

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

Not a shameless bump, just wishing I'd spellchecked the word reneg before crossposting the hell of out this. Reneges

Re: CheckNRaise poker (ongame) renegs on WSOP Tickets
 

This is pretty [censored] awful. Sorry, man.