Wait until the turn?
 

Villan is 58/25/1 or so and I decided to play this a bit wacky (raise flop and bet out at turn almost always).

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

Against a guy with AF of 1 I just lead out.

Edited to add: I think UTG has AT or maybe KTs.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

I like it. I do this a lot against unconventional or LAGgy opponents. I think bills is conceding too much with his hand estimates. He could easily have A8 or A7c, not to mention a medium or small pocket pai.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. I do this a lot against unconventional or LAGgy opponents. I think bills is conceding too much with his hand estimates. He could easily have A8 or A7c, not to mention a medium or small pocket pai.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or nothing at all w/ those stats.

-Caddy

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Against a guy with AF of 1 I just lead out.

Edited to add: I think UTG has AT or maybe KTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his line is fine. Is an AF of 1 for someone &gt;50% VPIP not in LAG zone? I think Villain auto-bets when checked too w/ any two cards here.

-Caddy

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

I prefer to bet out, or at least raise the flop. You wouldnt have been too happy if he had J9 or clubs on this one. Usually ill save tricky plays like these for a drawless board. Still not the worst way to play it...

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villan is 58/25/1 or so and I decided to play this a bit wacky (raise flop and bet out at turn almost always).

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd c/r this flop. Too many cards on the turn will scare you from raising

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer to bet out, or at least raise the flop. You wouldnt have been too happy if he had J9 or clubs on this one. Usually ill save tricky plays like these for a drawless board. Still not the worst way to play it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya I think c/r flop is the safe standard way. I still like his way for mixing things up occasionally.

-Caddy

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd c/r this flop. Too many cards on the turn will scare you from raising

[/ QUOTE ]
Most of the time, for sure. I figured he had such a wide range of hands and was going to bet regardless of the turn that I wanted to see a "safe" card and check-raise or call down (or eventually fold) if something horrible came. I wouldn't have done it against a 35/10/.5 or anything.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

here's the problem i see with your line.

you end up extracting 1 SB more than flop c/r, turn check/bet/call, river c/b/c line, (if you have the best hand)

but, more often than not, a weaker holding does not call down, and what calls down are some hands you don't actually beat. like AT, KT, etc.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
but, more often than not, a weaker holding does not call down, and what calls down are some hands you don't actually beat. like AT, KT, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
How does this change by check-raising the flop? All of this holds true there as well.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

well, it doesn't really. but have a better chance of getting away from a hand if dominated, because AT and overpairs should 3-bet.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, it doesn't really. but have a better chance of getting away from a hand if dominated, because AT and overpairs should 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

im never folding this hand against this opponent, even if he 15 bets the flop. If he 3bets the flop, check call down.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

I think it's ok. nh

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

You can't be folding this hand to aggression shown by this player. Once you flop this hand you're just going to have to get to showdown. He'll 3-bet the flop with ALOT of the hands you beat when you CR him.

Re: Wait until the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can't be folding this hand to aggression shown by this player. Once you flop this hand you're just going to have to get to showdown. He'll 3-bet the flop with ALOT of the hands you beat when you CR him.

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and do you think you have 33-50% equity against all of those hands? what if his post-flop aggro was &lt;0.5? do you think he can 3-bet with AK, 99, A8, or 2 clubs?

maybe you are right, but for me this is read specific. it's interesting that this player is 50/25, or LAG preflop. but 1.0 postflop shows that he can be passive. probably becoming passive with the mediocre holdings that he likes to play PF, and very aggressive with premium hands. (i know you've seen players like this)

1.0 it's borderline, he needs to be generally higher, and much higher if he is truly LAG. but let's say you C/R flop, he 3-bet, and you capped. then he leads the turn. would you call down still?

i think flop C/R gives you a better chance (info) for deciding on the calldown. turn C/R only encourages him to fold high cards, and call-down TPGK.