This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Probably the most satisfying hand of poker I've played in... at least this year, maybe longer.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+2 has As Ad (flush, ace high).
Hero has 5s 5h (four of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.50 BB. </font>


God damn it feels so good when you win a 19BB pot heads up after flopping quads.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Or limp aces

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Or limp aces

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His limp is brilliant. He sucked me in the whole way.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

serious question, why raise the flop?

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

You condescend in my posts about how I butchered a hand and you ask why raise the flop.

Fastplay is the new slowplay and yes I am serious.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Call the flop.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Call the flop.

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no

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Call the flop.

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norman chad disease claims another victim

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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serious question, why raise the flop?

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Serious question, did you read the rest of the hand?

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Call the flop.

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no

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Yes. Why would you raise, seriously?

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Call the flop.

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I dont agree. Raising the flop looks like a Q, while calling/raising the turn looks like you got tricky with a 5. Just bet out and get lots of $ in there, getting tricky is for NL.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

If you wait and raise the turn your hand looks exactly like trip 5s. By raising the flop you hand range now includes single pairs of queens and thus we were able to get 3-bets in on the turn when a) he has the best queen b) an overpair c) a flush. In general, 'fastplaying is the new slowplaying'.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Call the flop.

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I dont agree. Raising the flop looks like a Q, while calling/raising the turn looks like you got tricky with a 5. Just bet out and get lots of $ in there, getting tricky is for NL.

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You're not going to ever get lots of money in there except in a situation like this. Hardly anything can call if you raise and shut out the field, and the pot is miniscule. Queens and flush draws will call either way, but something like A7o or 77, which might have called if you called, will fold if you raise. Seems like an okay spot to play slowly.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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If you wait and raise the turn your hand looks exactly like trip 5s. By raising the flop you hand range now includes single pairs of queens and thus we were able to get 3-bets in on the turn when a) he has the best queen b) an overpair c) a flush. In general, 'fastplaying is the new slowplaying'.

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That axiom is old already and it doesn't apply here. We'll always get bets when he has a flush and PLEASE BE MORE RESULTS ORIENTED BY SAYING HE MIGHT HAVE AN OVERPAIR. You're almost never going to get action on this board either way - people aren't going to be 3-betting QJ here.

Also I don't know why it's so bad that it looks like we have trip 5s. It's not like somebody in this game is going to bet/fold the turn with a queen here if we raise.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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If you wait and raise the turn your hand looks exactly like trip 5s. By raising the flop you hand range now includes single pairs of queens and thus we were able to get 3-bets in on the turn when a) he has the best queen b) an overpair c) a flush. In general, 'fastplaying is the new slowplaying'.

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yes lets shut out the SB and BB when they are drawing dead, smart.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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serious question, why raise the flop?

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Serious question, did you read the rest of the hand?

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wow result orientated much?

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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PLEASE BE MORE RESULTS ORIENTED BY SAYING HE MIGHT HAVE AN OVERPAIR.


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I guess you missed the part where that was listed as PART OF A RANGE OF HANDS. Sure it is not a large component, but it is definately a fraction.
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You're almost never going to get action on this board either way - people aren't going to be 3-betting QJ here.

Also I don't know why it's so bad that it looks like we have trip 5s. It's not like somebody in this game is going to bet/fold the turn with a queen here if we raise.

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As far the rest of this, in general we get way more money from flush draws by raising this flop because we give them a chance to get 3-4 bets in on a big street if the get there, plus we often charge them an extra small bet when a draw checks the turn (yes we gain an 1 sb when we call the flop and raise the turn and he has a draw).

Also, there is a good chance all pp's less than QQ will call us down to river, but will bet/fold the turn and thus by raising the flop with get 1.5 more bb's. If a Queen will never bet/fold the turn AND will never 3-bet the flop against us then I agree your line nets us an extra 1 sb. Given the whole of his hand range I think it is easy to see though that raising the flop is superior in that we stand to gain a ton more money from all other non top pair hands.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Call the flop.

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I dont agree. Raising the flop looks like a Q, while calling/raising the turn looks like you got tricky with a 5. Just bet out and get lots of $ in there, getting tricky is for NL.

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You're not going to ever get lots of money in there except in a situation like this. Hardly anything can call if you raise and shut out the field, and the pot is miniscule. Queens and flush draws will call either way, but something like A7o or 77, which might have called if you called, will fold if you raise. Seems like an okay spot to play slowly.

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Any hand that would bet early in the round like that has enough of a hand to call a raise and call you down. Any flush draw will probably cold call you too, and would be more likely to join in the action on the turn with the bigger pot to draw for.
If A7 or 77 are being played by a nut, they will call you down. If its A7, you arent getting more on the turn by slowplaying the flop. If someone puts a SB in with 77, id say 70% of online players call the flop raise, and he would probably check-call the turn or check-fold anyway. I think there are many more situations where more money can be made by just betting it out. Not only that, but it makes playing against you much harder knowing that you will just go ahead and bet out with a monster.

Raising this board also could mean a flush draw and could induce more action out of a good hand anyway. I just think that playing it fast minimizes tells and maximizes winning in most cases. Aggression with a hand in limit is never a bad play IMO. Not only does raising the flop get more money into the pot, it also doesnt do much to slow down action on the turn.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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yes lets shut out the SB and BB when they are drawing dead, smart.

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this is wrong as sb/bb will call 2 with almost the same frequency that they will call 1 bet, but keep slowplaying if you think it is best and have fun never making it past live 9/18.......

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

calling this flop is so [censored] bad its ridiculous. i could care less whether or not you chronic slowplayers/FPSers understand why.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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yes lets shut out the SB and BB when they are drawing dead, smart.

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this is wrong as sb/bb will call 2 with almost the same frequency that they will call 1 bet, but keep slowplaying if you think it is best and have fun never making it past live 9/18.......

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FWIW, slowplaying is clearly part of the game and there is probably rarely a better opportunity to do so then here. It is pretty clearly best here, and saying raising is "clearly superior" to calling in a 6 SB pot is LOL.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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calling this flop is so [censored] bad its ridiculous. i could care less whether or not you chronic slowplayers/FPSers understand why.

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Learn to play poker. You're horrible.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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calling this flop is so [censored] bad its ridiculous. i could care less whether or not you chronic slowplayers/FPSers understand why.

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Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Nice thread PJ. Huge success!

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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calling this flop is so [censored] bad its ridiculous. i could care less whether or not you chronic slowplayers/FPSers understand why.

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Learn to play poker. You're horrible.

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o i c

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Charles, what stakes do you normally play?

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Charles, what stakes do you normally play?

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I don't see why it matters. I play lower than you do, happy? Pad your ego nice and good.

Raising is still inferior. Post it in basically any forum.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

last post in this thread because you have given no thought into the possible benifits of raising the flop OR attempt to actually give a coherent argument for slowplaying other than the blank statemnet of "slowplaying is clearly part of the game and there is probably rarely a better opportunity to do so then here"

So, I ask please discuss the merits of slowplaying against the likely range of hands for both UTG2 and blinds. Furthermore, try and think through how raising the flop will effect how the hands plays out against a variety of hand groupings.

We're just here to help, no need to be defensive [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Charles, what stakes do you normally play?

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I don't see why it matters. I play lower than you do, happy? Pad your ego nice and good.

Raising is still inferior. Post it in basically any forum.

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You know, when a small stakes player gets advice from two experienced, winning players, he shouldnt be so stubbourn or he'll never improve...

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Am i the only one that thinks [censored] strategy in BBV anyways?

btw, calling flop is retarded.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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serious question, why raise the flop?

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Because at 5/10 the over aggro [censored] will raise this with any pocket pair, a Q, or complete air because they want the pot. Not raising would be suspicious.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

you guys all suck for talking strategy in BBV.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Everyone who talked strat in this thread should be sent to 'Home Poker' for a week.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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Everyone who talked strat in this thread should be sent to 'Home Poker' for a week.

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oh cool its andrew karpinski saying people suck as posters

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

talking strategy in BBV is fun because it brings out the 2+2 forum "variance"

also, calling the flop sucks

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

I would call flop with 2 behind, last to act or only 1 behind, I raise.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

I don't know why you guys continue to argue with them. If they don't like money and want to call, let them. You tried to help now just let it go.

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

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getting tricky is for NL.

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lol

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

I'd like to rip on the slowplayers like everyone else, but

1) I hate talking strategy in BBV
2) You guys that prefer just calling the flop didn't have access to my reads/stats. Opponent was 36/17/2, very much a LAG, and my notes said "likes to play back at my aggression."

Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
 

Actually, i didnt mean to talk strategy, I just clicked the wrong forum and once i got an argument going, i couldnt resist.