10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

This was my first night of playing full ring. Villain is Strassa, I recognize his handle from the boards here, but I don't think he knows who I am. I've done nothing too eventful this session, and I haven't seen anything from him that stands out.

If you wanna call the flop, please let me know what you do in the following scenarios:

1) Turn blank, he checks.
2) Turn blank, he bets $800.
3) Turn 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], he bets $800
4) Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], he bets $800
5) Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], he checks, I check. River blank, he bets $1000.
6) Turn K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he bets $800


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$2000) <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> link

CO ($2315.01)
Button ($8140.66)
SB ($2642.00)
BB ($2000.00)
UTG ($1970.00)
UTG+1 ($5215.00)
MP1 ($1935.28)
Hero ($2351.17)
MP3 ($1027.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $70.00</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls $60.00, BB calls $50.00.

Flop: ($210.00) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
check, check, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $155.00, SB raises to $485, </font><font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero...

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

i dont mind folding to a cr on this board

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont mind folding to a cr on this board

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Maybe you didn't see my backdoor nut flush draw.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

trust me, i see it

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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trust me, i see it

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Maybe you didn't notice that it's a backdoor NUT flushdraw.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

yeah i saw that

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

lately i have learned through experience that calling off large amounts of money with backdoor draws = -EV

edit: unless running insanely hot hot hot

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i saw that

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Maybe you didn't notice my backdoor quads draw.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

How have you not mentioned your backdoor broadway draw yet?

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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How have you not mentioned your backdoor broadway draw yet?

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I was saving that for after I mentioned my multiple backdoor boat draws. (And backdoor royal flush draw)

Edit: Sorry everyone. I'm really tired. I did fold flop, but it felt weird and exploitable vs. someone as aggro as strasser. I hope some people wanna call and something interesting will come of this thread.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

hrm fold.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

Dude..fold.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont mind folding to a cr on this board

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Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

toss it. strassr is not c/r KQ here, and his only other hand u beat is QJ, but u will have to call off lots, prob your whole stack, too see it. it is tuff to play against him, because he puts a lot of pressure on you, with or without the goods. (as was stated in a previous thread i think)

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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toss it. strassr is not c/r KQ here, and his only other hand u beat is QJ,

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Definitely very wrong. However, you do need to fold here if you bet the flop and get raised this much (with so much still behind). If you know you're going to do this in advance, though, check the flop behind, or bet less.

JMan, might I recommend this .

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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toss it. strassr is not c/r KQ here, and his only other hand u beat is QJ,

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Definitely very wrong. However, you do need to fold here if you bet the flop and get raised this much (with so much still behind). If you know you're going to do this in advance, though, check the flop behind, or bet less.

JMan, might I recommend this .

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check this flop? half the deck sucks on the turn.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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Definitely very wrong.

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lol ok, add a flush draw and complete air to strassa's range, and u still have to fold. i guess u also beat q2, but didnt think i needed to state that

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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toss it. strassr is not c/r KQ here, and his only other hand u beat is QJ,

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Definitely very wrong. However, you do need to fold here if you bet the flop and get raised this much (with so much still behind). If you know you're going to do this in advance, though, check the flop behind, or bet less.

JMan, might I recommend this .

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hm? bet/raise sizes were pretty normal.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

Is a three bet here bad if we assume strassa is getting a little out of line?

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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Is a three bet here bad if we assume strassa is getting a little out of line?

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If you plan on folding to a 4-bet it's pretty bad IMO.

This is pretty dependent on your image and strassas at the time of this hand, and the recent history between you two. From what I can see there doesn't seem to have been much history between you two from the descriptions you give so I think folding is probably best here. I mean he might have KQ/QJ but it will just be a hard hand to play even with position IMO.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

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Is a three bet here bad if we assume strassa is getting a little out of line?

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This really will depend on how "out of line" you think he's getting. If it's a lot, then an overbet push on this flop is of course going to be better than folding. However he's gotta be getting pretty far out of line for that to be correct. But if you think he might be CR'ing w/ total air alot then pushing must be better than folding, and probably better than calling. However, from what I know, I doubt strassa gets this much out of line (although i have never played with him)

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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toss it. strassr is not c/r KQ here, and his only other hand u beat is QJ,

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely very wrong. However, you do need to fold here if you bet the flop and get raised this much (with so much still behind). If you know you're going to do this in advance, though, check the flop behind, or bet less.

JMan, might I recommend this .

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check this flop? half the deck sucks on the turn.

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You're thinking about this wrong if you think that makes it a mandatory bet. If you bet, and one of those cards comes off, you'll often be forced to fold, and you'll wish you hadn't bet. Keeping the pot small as long as you can will help you make less costly mistakes, and may entice your opponents to make more costly ones. Betting a lot here, which many (most) do, is a carryover from limit, and is very wrong, if you're up against tough players.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

i only read the title of the thread, but either allin or call allin.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

we have position, so the threat of being pushed off the hand should not bother us so much because we can check the turn.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

cero_z, I think the main problem with checking this flop is how you basically scream "I have a stronger hand than AA here zero percent of the time", and versus I guy like strasser who definately would pick up on this, I think he will be very prone to fire turn and if called only by OP, push pretty much any river without any two cards, and this WILL be profitable if he has good reason to believe that BB will not often interfer. The only thing working against strasser to do this is the fact that he has BB to worry about when betting turn in case flop went c/c/c.

Generally I just fold here given that he checkraised in a multiway pot. Had strasser been BB and sb had folded preflop, then, against a tricky player who will do this with air a lot of the time, I'd call a lot of the time and get it allin very often on any non-heart, non-k,non-8turn if he bets (which he will do a lot since he knows what your hand is kind of narrowed when cold-calling in this spot.) . He can definately give up some of the time on turn with air simply because he knows how intimidating that c/r on the flop looks (e.g, against any good player it's basically for stacks since OP would know strassa is gonna put it in on turn most of the time regardless of card, he doesn't gets explitable for villain in a way that villan can call flop and then get information about strasser on turn as long as he's checking a minorty of the times (where all checks can of course be air, that doesn't matter since it's the THREAT that the c/r on the flop (e.g I'm betting turn 00% of the time no matter the card) imposes that's what really matters, as long as OP knows strasser WILL be betting turn on a blank the vast majority of times, and as such, OP cannot really call to reconsider (if it blanks, that is). I mean, simply put: If you know that strasser is betting turn a vast majority of the times no matter his holding when c/ring like this and getting, then you simply have to decide whether you think your hand is ev+ vs his range that he c/r:s here with (made hands, draws/combodraws and air), and if turn blanks, then you understandably cannot fold if he bets but rather you must push.

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

haven't read the responses, but I think you should call flop and:

1. bet enough to price him out of a draw and fold if raised
2. fold
3. call (you usually get free showdown once you call this bet unless he has a jack, in which case you can fold to a river bet)
4. fold
5. very tough decision: I lean towards a call against strassa, but this one is very very close.
6. fold (a lot of the hands that he might have been semibluffing with might contain a king which is why this is different from #3)

Re: 10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa
 

a very good point, but I still prefer betting the flop and then gritting my teeth and making some tough decisions if raised. that being said, checking back the flop is by no means a mistake.