$11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

This hand arose very early into a 9-player sit and go, and I was wondering if my play looks okay. I have no particular reads, other than SB who had gone all the way in a couple of hands with weak hands.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1700)
Hero (t1500)
MP1 (t2240)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t970)
CO (t1420)
Button (t1400)
SB (t760)
BB (t2020)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t60</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP3 folds</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t50, BB calls t40

Flop: (t180) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets t80</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to t320</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t1440 (All-in)</font>, SB calls t380 (All-in)

Turn: (t2400) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)


River: (t2400) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

My particular concern is the size of my preflop raise. Do you think 3BB is too small at this blind level? What do you think of my postflop play?

Thanks,

scorpion_nz

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

With AK a larger raise will do more harm than good. Your flop bet is a little small, I'd make it about t120. With sb's stack this short, you can't get away from it so the rest is fine.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I think your play looks fine. Preflop is good. Perhaps bet a bit more on the flop, but it's okay. Given your read on SB and his stack, your reraise to his checkraise is also fine

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

[ QUOTE ]
With AK a larger raise will do more harm than good.

[/ QUOTE ]

could you please elaborate on this?

I think i would have made it 80 PF. Why is that worse that 60? Im just thinking that 60 makes all kinds of crap come along..

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Hello oyvindgee and KPL,

Thank you both for your very quick replies.

A question for oyvindgee, can you elaborate on why it would "do more harm than good" to raise higher with AK? I'd appreciate your insights.

Thanks again,

scorpion_nz

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I think some of the reason is that you're building a pot with a drawing hand. Suppose you bet 80, and get two callers from the blinds. Then the pot now is 240. Most of the time you don't hit the flop. Do you know c-bet? If you do, then this will cost you more chips, as the pot is better. Okay, so you make your C-bet, get a caller, and the turn is another blank. The pot is now large. What do you do now, take another stab at it if checked to you? What do you do if the caller makes a small donkbet? Keep the pot small with drawing hands. I think people who call with a preflop bet of 60 also will call if you make it 80

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Dear KPL,

In general I like to oscillate between 3-4 BB on strong hands like AK (I don't like to have a constant value because it may become predictable). I agree with your comment of the flop bet being a bit small, particularly against two players - I will take this on board.

Thank you for your very clear reply.

scorpion_nz

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I can see your point about building the pot and I agree with you.

[ QUOTE ]
I think people who call with a preflop bet of 60 also will call if you make it 80

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is a border somewhere. Maybe its at 60 and maybe its at 100, but thats not my point. Its the border to "I have to have a hand to call"-land. With the blinds being t20 and the buy in being 11$ I would make it 80 PF.

The reason behind this thinking is that I will be able to put my opponenets on a smaller range of hands if they call my PF raise. If I raise to 60 a lot of junk hands will call.

If the flop missed me there is a great chance that it missed my opponents too. This makes room for a c-bet when the flop texture fits the bill..

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think some of the reason is that you're building a pot with a drawing hand. Suppose you bet 80, and get two callers from the blinds. Then the pot now is 240. Most of the time you don't hit the flop. Do you know c-bet? If you do, then this will cost you more chips, as the pot is better. Okay, so you make your C-bet, get a caller, and the turn is another blank. The pot is now large. What do you do now, take another stab at it if checked to you? What do you do if the caller makes a small donkbet? Keep the pot small with drawing hands. I think people who call with a preflop bet of 60 also will call if you make it 80

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I meant. As fr varying your preflop raises, I wouldn't bother to much with it at the $11s. People don't pay attention so you wont gain enough to make up for not making the optimal play. IMO it's better to just keep your raises the same for all hands at that particular blind level, and that goes for all buy ins. Unless you use some kind of randomizer like your watch or the suit of the cards, different raises actually tend to make you easier to read. Sometimes limping with your strong hands is a more useful variation, but more so when the buy in gets larger.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I think the size of the preflop raise is not universally standard across all of the SnG games (even at the same buyin). For example, you might find that a table is full of people who will cold-call 3BB with very marginal hands, but not 4BB (or 5BB). I think it's an adjustment you have to make based on how tight/loose the table is.

I'm not really experienced at SnG's yet, but in my limited experience, 3-4 BB seems to be about right at a full table. Although, I have had tables where people were routinely cold-calling 4BB, and others where nobody was calling 3BB.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I would pf raise a little more...I go broke with this hand alot.

Becareful.....you have tptk...I would be weary he flopped his set. Hands that beat u....AA, KK, 88, 77, 78, K8. K7

Very possible this guy could have K8s at this early in the tourney.

But also now that I am seeing his only has about 380 chips left.......you made the right play....if he had more chips than you or the same stack and was not in the sb/bb then this hand is different.

Still would raise PF more.....120

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Well just as an aside, I asked a guy I know for advice on the hand and he goes "Your preflop raise was terrible! You should raise 300-400 (15-20 BB) to get rid of all of the rags who would call you otherwise." I disputed this and I'm glad I posted here because you have confirmed that my play was okay (perhaps not optimal).

In the actual hand, the Villian showed 7-3 of hearts, and spiked his 3 to take down the hand. It crippled me for the rest of the sit and go, but I can take heart that I got my money in as a good favorite.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I would simply limp pre-flop. At an $11 SNG the mentaility of your opponents is that it's "only" 60/80/100,etc to call and I have 1500 chips-not dollars behind so I might as well call and pray for a good flop.

I'm not saying to always limp, but usually in the first two seats during the first to levels I will not put in a raise, even if I hold AA. I figure (and I play the $11's too) that I'm better than my opponnets and I don't want to go broke in the first orbit. To put it in a simpler sense, the blinds are not worth stealing-you are risking 60 to win 30, this represents only a 2% growth in your stack if everyone folds. But usually you won't pick up the blinds. Remember, to these donkeys, it's "only" 60 to call, so you are likely to get multiple callers and playing the flop on OOP against several callers on whom you probably have no read in a pot that is T200 or bigger is just no fun. Now from MP or LP I'm going to raise with just about any hand I would raise in a cash game.

My justification for limping is that it's going to be easier to release your hand when you are behind in an unraised pot than it is in a raised pot, plus you are not spewing chips with a hand like AK or AQ when you miss the flop and your CB gets called.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

I usually limp AK in seats 1-5 in lvls 1-2, cause you will always get called, and the c-bet doesn't usually work oop at this lvl. If in late position - more of a possibility to act last with a c-bet (better) or take it down Pf.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Well, I guess limping is an alternative, but I feel even against 3 callers who call the raise, you still have a pot equity advantage (i.e. People will call with hands you dominate, like AQ, AJ, KQ etc). I think you still need to raise to punish these hands. Of course, if you get reraised, you have a decision to make (this is a different case to if you limp and then get raised).

Although, I do agree that people don't seem to mind calling raises cold preflop. It's a really tough spot but one I think I need to master to improve my results, as hands like this come up so often. I hope we can keep discussing this topic.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Wow there has been a lot of great advice in this thread.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

i would open preflop for 80. assuming the same two callers id bet at least t120 (half pot), and move all in to the reraise....so basically beyond your tad-small preflop raise, your play is perfectly fine for A K in this spot and the play i make most of the time. nh

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Hi AMT,

Thanks for your feedback - much appreciated.

I guess I will try to adjust my preflop raises to be a little higher (about 4BB) in the early stages. Maybe it is a different situation if the table is really tight, but that doesn't seem to happen until after the 2-3 maniacs are eliminated (which, in my experience, is in the first two levels).

I appreciate all the comments made here, both critical and encouraging :-)

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

The hand was played fine. I openraise to 80 in level 1 because getting called by 4 people sorta blows, and I bet a touch more on the flop, but neither point is all that important.

The 3-bet all-in is mandatory. Don't sweat it if you lost to a set or some stupid 2 pair, it happens. NH.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

i bet closer to t120 on the flop and have no problem getting my money in the middle in a $16.

Re: $11 SnG: A-K UTG
 

Thanks FeNeF, that sounds like sound advice.