Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

Seeing how many people are interested in chasing casino bonuses, I thought I'd do a public announcement. Have a read at this guys blog (apparently a former casino employee):

http://carlhutton.eponym.com/blog/_a...4/1981778.html

Moral of the story:

1) Before playing a casino, research it's reputation first. Even casinos using the same software vary differently in integrity. A simple google search on the casino name is minimum, and swing by Casinomeister.com to see if they are on the rogue list is mandatory.

Here is another sad tale. In this one, a guy had the Terms and Conditions changed on him less than a day after he read it, but unfortunately before he deposited. Cost to him, about 8000 GBP. And this was at one of the most reputable names out there.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/onli...-wiinnings.html

Moral of the story:

2) Before playing a casino, make sure you follow all Terms and Conditions and check them right before you make your deposit/bonus claim. Take screenshots and save them until you get paid. However, even when not claiming a bonus, many casinos will disqualify you and keep your money if you are found in violation of T&C. These included being underage, differences in address, inability to furnish documents, etc etc. So be sure to cover your butt.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

Let me also add that anytime you play at a casino, you should somehow save the T&C incase of a dispute.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

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Let me also add that anytime you play at a casino, you should somehow save the T&C incase of a dispute.

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I said that! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Also important: a lot of casinos have very confusing T&C. Some have terms spread out over many pages, and relevant info is not always on the same paragraph/page. For example, the wagering requirement might be on one section, then restricted games somewhere else entirely, then yet somewhere else you'll see that "bonus are for wagering purposes only", etc.

Before you do a bonus make sure you understand 100% what is required. If you don't ask first.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

I lost all my respect/trust for CM after I read through the thread. Bryan kept dissing the player and saying "what precedent would it create?" What a crock of shiiit. What precedent? The house has a bigger than 3% edge and the wagering doesn't count towards WR. Yet Bryan states "the casino would run their business into the ground should they allow this".

Also Bryan repeatedly says the player still has 200 + 200 = 400 pounds in her account and can have "another go" at it. At what though? Running 400 pounds up to 8,000 pounds on video poker and slots?

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

That was a pretty low move on Trident Lounges part. Terms that are posted to the website should have a short grace period.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

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I lost all my respect/trust for CM after I read through the thread.

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Ditto

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

It's also important to remember there are no regulations and no one to appeal to, and that most casinos have a term somewhere that says (in effect), "We can do whatever we want, and there's nothing you can do about it."

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

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It's also important to remember there are no regulations and no one to appeal to, and that most casinos have a term somewhere that says (in effect), "We can do whatever we want, and there's nothing you can do about it."

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That's not exactly true. RTG has Montana, Playtech has their own and MG has eCobra that are setup to take complaints from users of casinos in that software group. Then, there's people who hold major weight in the industry like casinomeister. All of these forces work to regulate internet gambling.

Rogue is rogue though and you should never play on a rogue casino. Sucks what happened to the user in the thread posted, but they're the ones that tried following old T&C and you can't blame the casino for enforcing their latest T&C. Nor do I think you can blame CM for siding with the casino on this one.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

eCobra and the others are bought and paid for by the casinos, aren't they?

Has eCobra ever come down on the side of a player?

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

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eCobra and the others are bought and paid for by the casinos, aren't they?

Has eCobra ever come down on the side of a player?

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eCobra mainly does MG and they are owned & operated by MG. I don't know much about disputes so I can't say if they usually side with the casinos. I do know that you have very few problems with MG casinos thought.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

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That was a pretty low move on Trident Lounges part. Terms that are posted to the website should have a short grace period.

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The casino's seemingly "sound" logic is also laughable. "How could we possibly notify a would-be player when we changed the T&C?" Once again, Bryan repeatedly referred to this and sided w/ the casino, as if you can't see this then you are a retard.

Of course there's no way to notify a would-be player about T&C changes. But the casino could and should notify a new player about an important bonus T&C change made less than 24 hours ago, especially when the new player has obvious intent to play through the bonus (she deposited 200 pounds to get 200 pounds bonus), not to mention the casino should ban the new player from those "excluded games" when her bonus has yet to be cleared, or at least warn her of the dire consequences.

But no, no warning no nothing. They let her play the "excluded" game. If she had lost the bonus/deposit playing the game, then too bad better luck next time. But she ran it up to 8,000 pounds. Oops, you played a wrong game. All your monies are belong to us!!!

I don't know about you guys, but that's ROGUE in my dictionary.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That was a pretty low move on Trident Lounges part. Terms that are posted to the website should have a short grace period.

[/ QUOTE ]

The casino's seemingly "sound" logic is also laughable. "How could we possibly notify a would-be player when we changed the T&C?" Once again, Bryan repeatedly referred to this and sided w/ the casino, as if you can't see this then you are a retard.

Of course there's no way to notify a would-be player about T&C changes. But the casino could and should notify a new player about an important bonus T&C change made less than 24 hours ago, especially when the new player has obvious intent to play through the bonus (she deposited 200 pounds to get 200 pounds bonus), not to mention the casino should ban the new player from those "excluded games" when her bonus has yet to be cleared, or at least warn her of the dire consequences.

But no, no warning no nothing. They let her play the "excluded" game. If she had lost the bonus/deposit playing the game, then too bad better luck next time. But she ran it up to 8,000 pounds. Oops, you played a wrong game. All your monies are belong to us!!!

I don't know about you guys, but that's ROGUE in my dictionary.

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Sorry but I'm with the casino on this one. Bonuses die all the time. Do you check to see if a bonus exists before you deposit for it, even if it was there the day before? This is no different.

Back when I did them, you could sign up for an account, deposit and get the bonus at king neptunes and be wagering on it before you ever get a welcome email... having them contact the player is simply not realistic.

The players have to protect themselves.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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That was a pretty low move on Trident Lounges part. Terms that are posted to the website should have a short grace period.

[/ QUOTE ]

The casino's seemingly "sound" logic is also laughable. "How could we possibly notify a would-be player when we changed the T&C?" Once again, Bryan repeatedly referred to this and sided w/ the casino, as if you can't see this then you are a retard.

Of course there's no way to notify a would-be player about T&C changes. But the casino could and should notify a new player about an important bonus T&C change made less than 24 hours ago, especially when the new player has obvious intent to play through the bonus (she deposited 200 pounds to get 200 pounds bonus), not to mention the casino should ban the new player from those "excluded games" when her bonus has yet to be cleared, or at least warn her of the dire consequences.

But no, no warning no nothing. They let her play the "excluded" game. If she had lost the bonus/deposit playing the game, then too bad better luck next time. But she ran it up to 8,000 pounds. Oops, you played a wrong game. All your monies are belong to us!!!

I don't know about you guys, but that's ROGUE in my dictionary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but I'm with the casino on this one. Bonuses die all the time. Do you check to see if a bonus exists before you deposit for it, even if it was there the day before? This is no different.

Back when I did them, you could sign up for an account, deposit and get the bonus at king neptunes and be wagering on it before you ever get a welcome email... having them contact the player is simply not realistic.

The players have to protect themselves.

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As posters who side w/ the victim in the CM thread already pointed out, I think the casino was within their rights to confiscate the player's winnings. But that doesn't mean they are RIGHT to do so.

The purpose of T&C is to protect the casino in case there is a dispute w/ a player. If it's used against something like bonus abuse then I don't have any problem with that. However, in this case, the casino is using their T&C (changed less than 24 hours before the said player signed up mind you) to screw the player because she ran (200 + 200) pounds up to 8,000 pounds. That's several months' salary for an average employee at said online casino.

Simply put, the "excluded games" (not "restricted") clause is a ROGUE clause designed to screw players in order to reduce payouts. Yet Bryan claims such clause is OMNIPRESENT in today's online casino world. He also thinks the victim shuold be grateful because the casino didn't confiscate her initial deposit and bonus, and that's what a ROGUE casino would have done.

You see, the difference here is 8,000 pounds vs. 7,600 pounds. The line is real thin. On one side, it's a bunch of ROGUE casinos; on the other side, it's a HIGHLY REPUTABLE casino vouched for by the CM owner.

Again, I don't know about you guys but I will steer well clear of such "reputable" casino.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

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It's also important to remember there are no regulations and no one to appeal to, and that most casinos have a term somewhere that says (in effect), "We can do whatever we want, and there's nothing you can do about it."

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not exactly true. RTG has Montana, Playtech has their own and MG has eCobra that are setup to take complaints from users of casinos in that software group. Then, there's people who hold major weight in the industry like casinomeister. All of these forces work to regulate internet gambling.

Rogue is rogue though and you should never play on a rogue casino. Sucks what happened to the user in the thread posted, but they're the ones that tried following old T&C and you can't blame the casino for enforcing their latest T&C. Nor do I think you can blame CM for siding with the casino on this one.

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Just for correctness: The organization that handles Microgaming complaints is eCOGRA, not eCobra.

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

Yeah this tale was incredible. These guys will use any trick to get (and keep) your money

Re: Internet (casino) gambling cautionary tale.
 

Is Warren Cloud still running casinos?