2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Average pretty much straightforward 2/4 crowd. Mostly on the loose passive side but nothing too extreme.

I get A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the Hijack.

UTG, UTG+1 and MP3 all call, I raise, the button cold calls, blinds fold everbody else calls.

We go 5 to the flop with 11.5sb in the middle.

J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 Calls, I raise, the button cold calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 3 bets, MP3 calls two more cold, I call, button calls.

We go four to the turn with 11.75 BBs in the middle.

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to me. I bet, button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, I fold.

Let me have it.

Edit for flop action.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Why bet/fold the turn? fair enough the bet, but I'd call for the K, yeah you might split. But the pot is massive.

JT

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

agreed... huge pot here...

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Im goin' with I had a seizure. I can't think of a better explanation. Looks good till the fold?

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

you must call that turn raise. you can fold the river UI, but you have odds to draw to the gutshot for one more.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Why raise the flop? You aren't going to clean up any Q or A outs, you probably don't have the best hand at this point (with a loose passive betting into you), any OESD will still have odds to chase, getting three-bet really sucks here.

I'd call the flop, and raise the turn on a Q or and A, otherwise fold.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

well, i'm not raising this flop and i'll tell you why. when the 10,j,x (r) falls with 4 other players, my absolute best hope is my gutshot to the nuts. any ace or any queen is problematic in the sense that one of the others could easily make 2 pair (if they don't have it already) or even broadway. even if i were to backdoor 2 pair, all they would need is one stinking k to beat me...the flop will chill my action for sure....

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Anybody else not like the flop raise?

I can't fold and raising gives me a chance at the button and a free card option. I frequently raise in situations like this. Is this a leak?

Should I have taken the free card even though I improved? I figured I had to charge any draws in case I was ahead. Too remote?

Also how bad is the turn fold? I know the pot is huge but the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is tainted and even when I hit I am going to split quite a bit.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

the line was very nice
raise pre flop raise flop (coordinated + continuation of pf aggression)maybe folds sum people etc
then the Q comes i think for bet again, call down if u get re raised at this point

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]

Also how bad is the turn fold? I know the pot is huge but the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is tainted and even when I hit I am going to split quite a bit.

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If you didn't raise the flop (and got three bet), and woke up when the Q spiked, it'd be a pretty safe fold to aggression on the turn.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody else not like the flop raise?

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I like the flop raise and would have bet/called the turn.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

What hands are we hoping to fold with a flop raise?


What do we put UTG+1 on when he 3bets the flop?

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

What hands are we hoping to fold with a flop raise?

The Button specifically.

What do we put UTG+1 on when he 3bets the flop?

After he checks the turn, maybe some kind of draw that is +EV multiway on the flop but didnt improve or maybe AJ or KJ, something that is worried about the overcard falling. That's one reason I struggled with whether to take the free card.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
What hands are we hoping to fold with a flop raise?


What do we put UTG+1 on when he 3bets the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop raise is really not that difficult of a raise. Gain supreme Position, Overcard Outs, Gutshot, - I'm suprised at all the controversy.

Now the turn fold we can talk about -- in short -- don't do it any more.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Is the turn fold really that bad?

Given that we have two other callers that will probably see the river, I think a lot of our potential outs do no better than split the pot if they hit.

I'm still trying to find that line that separates prudent from weak-tight. (I think I'm on the wrong side of it)

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, i'm not raising this flop and i'll tell you why. when the 10,j,x (r) falls with 4 other players, my absolute best hope is my gutshot to the nuts. any ace or any queen is problematic in the sense that one of the others could easily make 2 pair (if they don't have it already) or even broadway. even if i were to backdoor 2 pair, all they would need is one stinking k to beat me...the flop will chill my action for sure....

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody agree with this? I think these thoughts have some merit. I still like the raise but he's got a point. This flop is a minefield and I ended up stepping on a few.

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

Maybe this is a flaw in my game, but I just can't see raising the turn here as a option when you're against multiple opponents, at least one of whom must have you totally by the balls. You are drawing to a king (possibly for a split, and possibly one of which is counterfieted to a flush), and maybe to an ace if you're lucky and nobody already has 2 pair, a set, or a badly played AK. Can somebody justify this aggression to me?

Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is a flaw in my game, but I just can't see raising the turn here as a option when you're against multiple opponents, at least one of whom must have you totally by the balls. You are drawing to a king (possibly for a split, and possibly one of which is counterfieted to a flush), and maybe to an ace if you're lucky and nobody already has 2 pair, a set, or a badly played AK. Can somebody justify this aggression to me?

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hey man,

hero bet the turn and was raised. for very obvious(i think) reasons hero MUST bet that turn. hero did not raise the turn.