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-   -   Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=121766)

captain_swing 05-24-2006 10:03 PM

Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
It's getting serious. Everyone needs to make sure they call and emails their reps and whatever else PPA recommends.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052402432.html

Bill to Ban Gambling Online Gets 4th Chance

By Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 25, 2006; Page D01

Online poker players will have to fold their hands if a Virginia congressman gets his way.

Today, the House Judiciary Committee will mark up a bill introduced by Rep. Robert W. Goodlatte (R) that would ban much online gambling, including bets on sporting events and games of chance -- namely poker, which has enjoyed a boom in recent years.


How a Lobbyist Stacked the Deck
Lobbyist Jack Abramoff in 2000 was key to blocking a version of this year's legislation to ban Internet gambling.


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The legislation could get an unexpected boost from the Jack Abramoff scandal. The disgraced lobbyist was key to blocking one of Goodlatte's three previous attempts to ban Internet gambling, and backlash over corruption charges could help the current effort.

The bill would update the Federal Wire Wager Act, which prohibits gambling over telephone lines but may not apply to Internet gambling because all Web traffic does not travel over phone lines. It also would force banks to block transactions related to online gambling and would empower law enforcement agencies to force Internet service providers to remove or disable links to gambling sites.

"I am a big advocate of opening up the Internet to all kinds of legitimate uses," said Goodlatte, who is co-chairman of the Congressional Internet Caucus. "But we don't want the Internet to come the Wild West of the 21st century." Goodlatte said he opposes gambling because it leads to "a whole host of ills in society."

The bill effectively would prevent state lotteries from taking their games online, because technology does not exist to keep gambling within a state. Fantasy sports leagues would be exempt. Goodlatte said his bill is neutral on parimutuel horse wagering, which has an online component that is the cause of an ongoing struggle between Congress and the Justice Department.

The legislative fight over an earlier version of Goodlatte's bill was at the center of the Abramoff lobbying scandal, which led to guilty pleas by Abramoff and four former associates, including three former congressional aides. Abramoff's client, a gambling services company, opposed the bill and the lobbyist funneled $50,000 of the client's money to the wife of a key aide to former House majority leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas). The aide, Tony Rudy, pleaded guilty to charges that he conspired with Abramoff to corrupt public officials and defraud his clients. Questions about DeLay's role contributed to DeLay's decision to leave Congress.

The current bill is backed by religious groups such as the Southern Baptist Convention, professional sports leagues such as the NFL and online-auction giant eBay. On the other side are members of Congress from casino-supported Nevada, who introduced rival legislation; casinos; an organization of small banks that says its members do not have the manpower to block all gambling transactions; and the group with the highest visibility, the Poker Players Alliance.

Poker players argue that their pastime should be excluded from Goodlatte's ban because it is a game of skill, not chance. Last month, three World Series of Poker champions visited a House office building to defend their game against attempts to ban it online.

"We don't believe that simply putting the word 'Internet' in front of 'poker' should make the game suspect," said Michael Bolcerek, president of the Poker Players Alliance. "Poker is a skill game. You can influence events. The original cards are random, but you can influence your success or failure throughout the hand" by learning betting patterns of fellow players, bluffing and other techniques, he said.

Bolcerek said he prefers a weekly sit-down poker game with buddies to playing online.

Goodlatte, who said he played poker as a young man but never for money, disagreed. Poker is "absolutely a game of chance," he said.

Both sides estimate that about $12 billion a year is spent in online gaming.

Three House members from Nevada -- Jon Porter (R), Shelley Berkley (D) and Jim Gibbons (R) -- yesterday introduced legislation for an 18-month study of online gambling and whether games could be regulated and taxed, as they are in Britain. Goodlatte said such regulation could not exist here because gambling is regulated at the state, not federal, level.

The Independent Community Bankers of America, a group of about 5,000 small banks that opposes Goodlatte's bill, said previous attempts got bogged down in complications and had little chance of passing. But Stephen J. Verdier, senior vice president for congressional affairs for the small bankers, said the Abramoff scandal "has raised the political saliency" of Goodlatte's bill. "It's kind of got us a little worried, frankly," he said.

Though banks have the right to examine all transactions and block them if required by law, they are in the business of making customer payments as quickly and accurately as possible, Verdier said, "not trying to decide if you're a good person or a bad person."

d-baggery 05-24-2006 10:05 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
"But we don't want the Internet to come the Wild West of the 21st century."

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is exactly what I support.

jt1 05-24-2006 10:42 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte, who said he played poker as a young man but never for money, disagreed. Poker is "absolutely a game of chance," he said.

[/ QUOTE ]

Overdrive 05-24-2006 11:12 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"But we don't want the Internet to come the Wild West of the 21st century."

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is exactly what I support.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone must realize that the Republicans want to ban everything from poker to playboy on the internet. If the Republicans have their way the internet will just be one big Disney channel.

primetime32 05-24-2006 11:26 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"But we don't want the Internet to come the Wild West of the 21st century."

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is exactly what I support.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone must realize that the Republicans want to ban everything from poker to playboy on the internet. If the Republicans have their way the internet will just be one big Disney channel.

[/ QUOTE ]

genius, instead of turning this into a stupid political argument, read the damn article again and realize that the person who had tried to block one of the previous attempts was a republican named jack abramoff.

If you knew anything about politics you would understand that there isnt much of a difference between republicans and democrats and they all do what they think will get them elected and not what they think is right and wrong.

-zero- 05-24-2006 11:27 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte, who said he played poker as a young man but never for money, disagreed. Poker is "absolutely a game of chance," he said.

[/ QUOTE ]

So he hasn't played in decades and hes qualified to say that its a game of chance. I bet he lost alot when he did play.

dieharder 05-24-2006 11:29 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
someone pls do something, i am scared

ttw22 05-24-2006 11:35 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte said such regulation could not exist here because gambling is regulated at the state, not federal, level.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why is he trying out ban online gambling at the federal level?

Overdrive 05-24-2006 11:39 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte said such regulation could not exist here because gambling is regulated at the state, not federal, level.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why is he trying out ban online gambling at the federal level?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he is a typical right wing Republican. He wants everyone to just give all their money to the churches. If you haven't heard the Republicans also are going to try and ban any access to online erotica, even for adults, they even want to ban Playboy. The Republicans want to censor and control the internet the same way the Chinese do.

Overdrive 05-24-2006 11:40 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
that there isnt much of a difference between republicans and democrats

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you really as stupid as you sound? Or are you just drunk or something?

primetime32 05-24-2006 11:43 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that there isnt much of a difference between republicans and democrats

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you really as stupid as you sound? Or are you just drunk or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting that you ignored the part of my response that discussed the fact that the person responsible for stopping this bill before was jack abramoff, a republican. And the fact that many democrats are also backing this bill. Apparently overdrive has an agenda.

Barrin6 05-25-2006 12:02 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte said such regulation could not exist here because gambling is regulated at the state, not federal, level.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why is he trying out ban online gambling at the federal level?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he is a typical right wing Republican. He wants everyone to just give all their money to the churches. If you haven't heard the Republicans also are going to try and ban any access to online erotica, even for adults, they even want to ban Playboy. The Republicans want to censor and control the internet the same way the Chinese do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are going a little too far there and no, I'm not republican.

It's more like the right wing extremists are the ones who want to be the chinese.

I think politics is getting out of hand these days. The US gov't is putting too much of it's religous and moral values into legislation.

MicroBob 05-25-2006 12:17 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
simply blaming it on the republicans is misinformed.

Some right-wing extremeists are in the group that are in favor of this bill. But one shouldn't say things like "if the republicans get their way" etc etc.

I'm about as liberal as they come fwiw.
But both of my parents are rather conservative republicans (although not christian-coalition conservative).

My Mom likes Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, etc. She worked at an adjacent desk to Dick Cheney for the Wisconsin governor when she was a secretary and he was an intern.

Even without the fact that her son relies on this for income she is disappointed that her party is trying to regulate what Americans want to do from their own homes.


People are going to disagree about certain issues. But if you aren't a republican you aren't going to win many fans by just blaming all of them and saying they are all idiot-heads.
Some of them are against the bill in the first place. And others might respond to rational discussion (as opposed to insults).

MicroBob 05-25-2006 12:20 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
I think this bill will mostly bring about paranoia and dissuade potential new players from giving it a try.

But otherwise it technically doesn't do much.

Most credit-card companies already stopped allowing transactions to such sites awhile ago (which is what this bill is designed to do).

For more info on this bill I highly recommend reading the analysis that appeared in CardPlayer a few weeks ago.

If someone has info about this bill that refutes Shulman's claims about how virtually pointless it is then I would be interested in hearing it.
Until then, it seems to me that Ms. Shulman seems to have a pretty solid handle on the realities of the legislation.


cardplayer article

itsmarty 05-25-2006 12:22 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
the person who had tried to block one of the previous attempts was a republican named jack abramoff

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell us more about this principled fellow.

Martin

Overdrive 05-25-2006 12:28 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
jack abramoff, a republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that is your hero? The most slimy, sleaziest, most corrupt lobbyist in the history of Washington D.C.? Oh wait...yeah he does sound like a typical Republican, I can see why he is your hero.

Cubswin 05-25-2006 12:40 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
At what point did primetime32 say that JA was his hero?

razen_cain 05-25-2006 12:41 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
MicroBob, thanks for that link. That's the first indepth article I've seen that shows how this bill is simply meaningless and will accomplish nothing. I highly reccommend everyone give it a read.

...ok, everyone can now get back to their bickering about republicans and democrats.

PTjvs 05-25-2006 12:59 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jack abramoff, a republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that is your hero? The most slimy, sleaziest, most corrupt lobbyist in the history of Washington D.C.? Oh wait...yeah he does sound like a typical Republican, I can see why he is your hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you truly that stupid? He obviously is not saying that JA isn't a sleazeball, he is saying that there are republicans & democrats on both sides of this issue.

Every time I read one of your posts, I cringe.

NSchandler 05-25-2006 01:13 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
So that is your hero? The most slimy, sleaziest, most corrupt lobbyist in the history of Washington D.C.? Oh wait...yeah he does sound like a typical Republican, I can see why he is your hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have amazingly poor reading comprehension skills.

joe c 05-25-2006 01:13 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Are you truly that stupid? He obviously is not saying that JA isn't a sleazeball, he is saying that there are republicans & democrats on both sides of this issue.

Every time I read one of your posts, I cringe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Republicans and Democrats are on both sides of the issue, but without a doubt, the push to ban online gambling is being lead by republicans. It doesn't matter if x republican is against the ban, and x democrat is for the ban, its still at its base part of a republican agenda.

Jay Cohen 05-25-2006 01:28 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
When this bill was introduced this year it had 115 co-sponsors, 110 republicans and 5 democrats. It is driven by social conservatives. That's a fact, I'm not looking for an argument.

Very few politicians really care about this issue. But, when it comes up they are scared to vote against it, that's the problem.

Did Jack Abramoff kill this bill two times ago? He certainly had a hand in it, but so did others. That year the people against it threatened to offer amendments on the floor that would kill the "carve outs" for the special interests. So they brought it to the floor under what they call "suspension." That means no amendments but it needs a 2/3's vote. They didn't get it.

Many who voted against it that time were social conservatives who thought the "carve outs" actually expanded gambling.

primetime32 05-25-2006 01:30 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jack abramoff, a republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that is your hero? The most slimy, sleaziest, most corrupt lobbyist in the history of Washington D.C.? Oh wait...yeah he does sound like a typical Republican, I can see why he is your hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I am a registered democrat who thinks bush is a moron. You should quit while your behind.

anchorbanker71 05-25-2006 01:34 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:31:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "xxxxxx" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: internet gambling prohibition bill
To: [email protected]

Greetings,

Since Mr. Goodlatte is a sponsor of this bill, I have decided not to waste my time with any
thoughtful and relevant arguments. Instead, I would like to simply address the statement that Mr.
Goodlatte was quoted as making in the Washington Post.

"Poker is absolutely a game of chance."

This statement confirms to me what I have already suspected for quite some time....that Mr. Goodlatte is a certifiable moron.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX

slavic 05-25-2006 02:08 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
For the conservative bashers, let me warn you that it was liberal democrats that are making it a fellony to gamble online in Washington state.

Do not think that you are safe in trusting either side in this matter.

Jay Cohen 05-25-2006 02:25 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
I am a conservative, not a conservative basher.

No real conservative would be for this latest attempt at government intrusion into the personal lives of its citizens.

I don't know the breakdown of the Washington state vote and who sponsored it. Can you please post?

I'm sad to say I think this bill will clear the committee tomorrow. I hope I am wrong.

Gildwulf 05-25-2006 10:10 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:31:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "xxxxxx" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: internet gambling prohibition bill
To: [email protected]

Greetings,

Since Mr. Goodlatte is a sponsor of this bill, I have decided not to waste my time with any
thoughtful and relevant arguments. Instead, I would like to simply address the statement that Mr.
Goodlatte was quoted as making in the Washington Post.

"Poker is absolutely a game of chance."

This statement confirms to me what I have already suspected for quite some time....that Mr. Goodlatte is a certifiable moran.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX

[/ QUOTE ]

NoMoreLurking 05-25-2006 10:22 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte, who said he played poker as a young man but never for money , disagreed. Poker is "absolutely a game of chance," he said.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well if you don't play for money (or just don't really know how to play period), then poker IS a game of chance.

If you have some ability THEN it becomes a game of skill.

fsuplayer 05-25-2006 10:43 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
For the conservative bashers, let me warn you that it was liberal democrats that are making it a fellony to gamble online in Washington state.

Do not think that you are safe in trusting either side in this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gregatron 05-25-2006 10:50 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
For the conservative bashers, let me warn you that it was liberal democrats that are making it a fellony to gamble online in Washington state.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is incorrect. This was overwhelmingly supported by both parties in WA. It was, to be fair, introduced by a Democrat, but I am not sure how "liberal" that person was (as Dems are often not very liberal at all).

EDIT: I do think the point behind your post is valid though. This is not a partisan issue. I think spamming the zoo with "Republicans are bad!" or "conservatives are bad" posts in regard to this issue are pretty pointless.

JackOfSpeed 05-25-2006 11:05 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
Who "plays poker as a young man" and never once ends up playing for money, even if it's pennies? Methinks we've got a liar AND an idiot on our hands.

Blowup Doll 05-25-2006 11:24 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"But we don't want the Internet to come the Wild West of the 21st century."

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is exactly what I support.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone must realize that the Republicans want to ban everything from poker to playboy on the internet. If the Republicans have their way the internet will just be one big Disney channel.

[/ QUOTE ]

They hate Disney because of the Gay Pride Day there.

LearnedfromTV 05-25-2006 11:36 AM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte, who said he played poker as a young man but never for money, disagreed. Poker is "absolutely a game of chance," he said.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe I speak for all of us when I say:

vofshgg7564tbvfhyw4letgladfghk;df/lm,b.xcvbet,/bfbfbfbx qwerqwagp[rels;afkwe[r59'ekga

JackCase 05-25-2006 12:27 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]


Everyone must realize that the Republicans want to ban everything from poker to playboy on the internet. If the Republicans have their way the internet will just be one big Disney channel.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Democrats have a long history of trying to impose their ethical standards on society.

Mrs. Al Gore:

[ QUOTE ]
In 1984, she co-founded the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) because she heard her 12-year-old daughter playing "Darling Nikki" by Prince. Critics of the PMRC, including Jello Biafra and Frank Zappa, have accused the PMRC of conducting public and under-the-table censorship campaigns against various recording artists and have pointed out the PMRC's ties to the American religious right.


In 2000, Tipper Gore began to make public appearances as a "mental health" advocate. She has been criticised by human rights organizations for her ambiguous stance towards involuntary psychiatric treatment, including forced drugging and commitment of people labelled as mentally ill.

[/ QUOTE ]


Joe Lieberman, Hilary Clinton, et al.:
[ QUOTE ]
Lieberman has been criticized by many computer and video game players for his stance on video games; he is a strong supporter of video game censorship. He has also been vocal in the censorship of many controversial musical artists. In the late 1990s Lieberman was vocal in lobbying for censorship against shock rocker Marilyn Manson, calling his group "one of the sickest" he had ever seen. As a senator he inspired the advent of the Entertainment Software Rating Board. He has been known many times to denounce the violence contained in video games and has made attempts to regulate sales of violent video games to minors.

On November 29, 2005, Lieberman, together with Hillary Clinton and Evan Bayh introduced the Family Entertainment Protection Act. The act is intended to protect children from inappropriate content found in video games.

[/ QUOTE ]



Etc., etc., etc.

(Quotes from Wiki)

benfranklin 05-25-2006 12:42 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that there isnt much of a difference between republicans and democrats

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you really as stupid as you sound? Or are you just drunk or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Democrat and Republican politicians have much more in common than not. They are all part of the Good Old Boy network, and they are all pandering for money and votes.

Even at the grass roots level, the differences between Democratic and Republican voters are more rhetoric than substance. The big differences in politics are between the mainstream and the splinter groups.

obsidian 05-25-2006 12:42 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
This is a morality issue, not a party issue. Read this article on the bill in Washington:

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2006/5...egislation.htm

Make sure to note this part:

[ QUOTE ]
In January of this year, Democratic State Senator Margarita Prentice introduced legislation in the Washington Senate to “reaffirming and clarifying the prohibition against internet (sic) and certain other interactive electronic or mechanical devises to engage in gambling”.

[/ QUOTE ]

and

[ QUOTE ]
After its passage in the senior hall of the state government in Olympia, it was almost like the bill was put on the fast track to the governor of the state, Democrat Christine Gregoire.

[/ QUOTE ]

She then signed it into law. Also, Washington is a blue state.

Sparta45 05-25-2006 01:04 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
It would be nice to sit down at a cash game with this guy every day for a month and then at the end ask him if it's a game of skill or luck [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

fluorescenthippo 05-25-2006 03:18 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Three House members from Nevada -- Jon Porter (R), Shelley Berkley (D) and Jim Gibbons (R) -- yesterday introduced legislation for an 18-month study of online gambling and whether games could be regulated and taxed, as they are in Britain. Goodlatte said such regulation could not exist here because gambling is regulated at the state, not federal, level.

[/ QUOTE ]


does this mean there might be at laest 18 more months left?

ragecg 05-25-2006 03:56 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
Goodlatte, who said he played poker as a young man but never for money, disagreed. Poker is "absolutely a game of chance," he said.

[/ QUOTE ]

...apparently he's never met Phil Ivey or Gus Hansen, lol

jrz1972 05-25-2006 04:10 PM

Re: Washington Post Article on bill to ban internet poker
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jack abramoff, a republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that is your hero? The most slimy, sleaziest, most corrupt lobbyist in the history of Washington D.C.? Oh wait...yeah he does sound like a typical Republican, I can see why he is your hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do your lips move every time you read a stop sign?


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