TPTK Slowplay
 

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t6285)
UTG+1 (t4740)
MP1 (t1395)
MP2 (t3045)
Hero (t2595)
CO (t4420)
Button (t2490)
SB (t2450)
BB (t5440)

Preflop: Hero is in MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t150, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t600</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t525, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>

Flop: (t1500) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Edit: Note SB's stack.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

I like it. You give your opponent a chance to bet for the check raise. You're also giving him a chance to hit the turn and call off some of his chips.

The only problem I see is that once in awhile you'll run into a set here and you wont be able to get away. The question is, if you bet instead of check... are you getting away from a set? Or are you prepared to get your chips in with TPTK on this board?

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

standard

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only problem I see is that once in awhile you'll run into a set here and you wont be able to get away. The question is, if you bet instead of check... are you getting away from a set? Or are you prepared to get your chips in with TPTK on this board?

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pot 1500, you have about 1900 left and you hit this board. The chance i'm getting away from this without a very specific read is really really small. You're gonna get everything in here, this is about extracting maximum value. Not about trying hard to find a reason to fold. I like the check, pretty standard indeed.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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standard

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Yep, when he puts you in on the turn, laugh as you beat his 33.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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standard

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Cool. How many hands do I have to play before I can recognize all standard spots?

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only problem I see is that once in awhile you'll run into a set here and you wont be able to get away. The question is, if you bet instead of check... are you getting away from a set? Or are you prepared to get your chips in with TPTK on this board?

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Pot = 1500
Stack Left = 1900
TPTK
No Read

I'm getting this in every single time. I like the check by the way. With this board I dont see many worse hands calling, and I dont see any "scare cards". Let the opponent get himself commited on the turn.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

I don't think this is as standard as some are saying. I don't mind the check here but you don't want to make your play to obvious b/c a bet here will help protect your future C-bets. I would probably check here 65% of the time and throw out a 1/2 - 3/5 pot bet the rest of the time.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

I like this given Villain's stack. But the move I like even more is the "really weak" lead. I think it gets more out of Villain when he has complete air.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

I'll take the Con: I bet.

Especially if you make continuation bets when you miss, make a bet when you hit. Yeah if he totally missed and isn't going to bluff he gets away, but if he is huggin a pocket pair or has some funky draw, you get him to commit. Checking is a-suspicious, b-gives free card, c-the guy gets away from it on the turn anyway d-you just got pwned

You can make it look weak 4-600 or all-in given the stack sizes, but I see no reason to ket tricky even on a benign board.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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I like this given Villain's stack. But the move I like even more is the "really weak" lead. I think it gets more out of Villain when he has complete air.

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That just doesn't work at my stakes. Sounds cool against thinking players though.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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standard

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Cool. How many hands do I have to play before I can recognize all standard spots?

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I dunno, ask someone who's played 1000x as much as me =/

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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I like this given Villain's stack. But the move I like even more is the "really weak" lead. I think it gets more out of Villain when he has complete air.

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That just doesn't work at my stakes. Sounds cool against thinking players though.

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Really? I would think that this would work MORE at your stakes.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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I like this given Villain's stack. But the move I like even more is the "really weak" lead. I think it gets more out of Villain when he has complete air.

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That just doesn't work at my stakes. Sounds cool against thinking players though.

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Really? I would think that this would work MORE at your stakes.

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They don't know a big bet from a small bet.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

i like it too, inducing a bluff or essentially any bet being pot-committing from villian when stacks are a bit above the size of the pot. what tournament is this, btw?

i disagree with jeff regarding the c-bet. i think this is a good move, something i dont do often but find eye-opening when discussed. how often do we try someting like this? 65% of the time seems a little like fps. if villians got a King we're prolly getting all his chips regardless of a c-bet out or check-check flop. lead-raise-call turn. good discussion.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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standard

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Cool. How many hands do I have to play before I can recognize all standard spots?

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Well over a dozen. At least 2 dozen if you really want to get good.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

the weak lead is a great play, but I like the check here. Any bet here is bad I think.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

if you assign a good prob to villian having KQ, KJ, KT, why is leading bad? i like the check behind to allow a bluff bet from villian on driest board ever, but why are we checking this flop so frequently? pls explain?

my point is that i can't envision so many turn cards changing anyones mind about the hand so much that they pay us off?

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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if you assign a good prob to villian having KQ, KJ, KT, why is leading bad? i like the check behind to allow a bluff bet from villian on driest board ever, but why are we checking this flop so frequently? pls explain?

my point is that i can't envision so many turn cards changing anyones mind about the hand so much that they pay us off?

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The turn card is irrelevant. We just want to give the opponent a chance to stab at the pot; no matter what he has stacks are too shallow to find a fold at any point during this hand.

I'm doubling up a set or 2 pair every time in this pot.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

It's fine, but anyone who says that betting is bad is being ridiculous. I move allin in this exact spot 100% of the time with all hands. Anytime I check against a good player (of course after they call from the SB they probably aren't good) its immediately certain that I have a big hand.

Anyway I'd probably bet real small like 300-400, to convince them to make a move on me, but to also convince them to call with something and build the pot to the extent where they feel more and more committed. Like they may decide for God knows what reason to peel one off with 77, but wouldn't have done so if the turn was a ten.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

I make a continuation bet 90% of the time, so why wouldn't I here? A bet PF and check on the flop seems like a HUGE red flag and if I had a weak king on the flop and didn't hit my second pair on the turn I would keep checking and try to see the cheapest showdown possible, and more than likely fold to an AI. However, if I saw the hero make continuation bets and made one here, and I had a king, I would push. So I like a c-bet here.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

Well AceLuby I think the point is that your opponent doesn't know you and how you would play.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

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I make a continuation bet 90% of the time, so why wouldn't I here? A bet PF and check on the flop seems like a HUGE red flag and if I had a weak king on the flop and didn't hit my second pair on the turn I would keep checking and try to see the cheapest showdown possible, and more than likely fold to an AI. However, if I saw the hero make continuation bets and made one here, and I had a king, I would push. So I like a c-bet here.

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so you're folding a king to a turn bet? or any other pair for that matter? no, you're not. if you are, you're a tiny minority.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

Probably not folding a king, but are you going to push on the turn, or wait for the river? I think not betting on the flop is giving villain a free card to beat me. Personally I'd rather take the pot down right there then to let him suck out.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

As it stands the villain either already has us beat with a set our he has a maximum of five outs. I definately like the checking the flop considering the information we have here and the stakes. All of my money (or as much as i can get of it) is going into this pot considering we are shortstacked as well.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

Checking is fine here as is bet check bet. You might make a weak lead, Check turn, then bet river weakly either to get a crying call or induce a bluff.

Edited to say: Turn check makes it look like you missed flop and weakish river bet may malke him think he could take this away from you. But I just realized stack sizes, so this line works better if villian is deeper.

Re: TPTK Slowplay
 

Check seems fine, depending on my table image and my read I also like to put out a weak lead here, if called I will often check the turn and get all my chips in the pot one way or another on the river. I'm expecting a move from my opponent on the river and if I dont get one I think my push looks like I dont want a call so I will likely get called if he's got anypart of this.