I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Villain is standard $200 NL donk. Comments on all streets are welcome. I think I should've folded the flop with the second villain behind me, but I was looking for another club and re-evaluate the turn.

I didn't think villain had an ace, possibly KK/QQ/JJ.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($181.70)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($279.60)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($343.90)</font>
MP ($289.85)
Button ($272.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $8, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $22</font>, Hero calls $16, Button calls $16.

Flop: ($73) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $50</font>, Hero calls $50, Button folds.

Turn: ($173) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($173) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB calls $205.60 (All-In), Hero ???

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Bet the turn. Fold to a c/r.

Call river as played.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Why bet the turn? I'm only getting called by a hand that beats me, and I have a good draw. I wasn't THAT sure he had KK.

He could very well have Ax and be scared of the clubs, but not scared enough to fold.

Anything think this river bet is anything BUT the nuts? Unless he's completely bluffing... which I don't think he'd do with a set of jacks/Ax/AA because those hands all have showdown value. Basically either the river gave him the nuts, or he's got a decent hand that he'd check to me on the river with.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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and I have a good draw.

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And you hit this so called "good" draw, so what's the problem?

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

I think this river is a fold.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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Bet the turn. Fold to a c/r.


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I hate it. He is giving you a free card, take it.

Krishan

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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I think this river is a fold.

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I don't see how he gets to the river with the Kc after the turn check. I call the river but I could definitely be missing something.

Krishan

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

So assuming I called the river... Is this just a trap hand that I played as well as I could -OR- is there a more optimal way to play this?

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

The way I look at this situation is like this: Many players will go all-in no matter what here. Scare card + pot as big as my remaining stack + likelihood you don't have a big club = all-in. For all the baby flushes I have to fold in these situations, I am calling when I have the queen here.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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I think this river is a fold.

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What happened to your "good" draw?


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don't see how he gets to the river with the Kc after the turn check. I call the river but I could definitely be missing something.

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K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Anyway, this isn't the flop to float on. I fold flop.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Don't draw to non-nut one card flush draws in big raised pots with no immediate odds and no implied odds and no clue where you stand if you do hit.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Ok so far noone has offered any advice other than scrambled thoughts. Where did I misplay this hand?

Also what about the times that he has something like QxQx/KxKx and put's me on an ace, and wants to bluff me off the best hand, repping the club?

Does that make this river an easy call?

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Hate calling the flop. You need to call river. You win here way more than the roughly 1/3 of time you need to break even.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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Ok so far noone has offered any advice other than scrambled thoughts. Where did I misplay this hand?

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the flop man. fold the flop.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

If your going to call the flop you have to call the river, if not then your drawing to nothing and your already behind an ace. If your not willing to go all the way when you hit your draw then fold the flop or put some pressure on your opponent to fold his hand.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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Bet the turn. Fold to a c/r.

Call river as played.

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Incorrect

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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I think this river is a fold.

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I don't see how he gets to the river with the Kc after the turn check. I call the river but I could definitely be missing something.

Krishan

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You don't check this turn with Kc Ks or Kc X?

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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I think this river is a fold.

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I don't see how he gets to the river with the Kc after the turn check. I call the river but I could definitely be missing something.

Krishan

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You don't check this turn with Kc Ks or Kc X?

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Yeah that's likely. Can't he have other hands though?

Krishan

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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I think this river is a fold.

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I don't see how he gets to the river with the Kc after the turn check. I call the river but I could definitely be missing something.

Krishan

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You don't check this turn with Kc Ks or Kc X?

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Yeah that's likely. Can't he have other hands though?

Krishan

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sure he can. Ax Kc

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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sure he can. Ax Kc

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Doesn't that hand bet the turn for value w/a great redraw?

Krishan

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

The only hand Hero can have that Villain has a redraw against is top set, and Hero will certainly push (should've already) with AAA, so a turn bet with Kings is ridiculous.

I think a check by AK is good cause Villain can have AA-KK-QQ and only one of those is calling a turn bet if we have the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but might push themselves.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

So assuming I call the flop, do I find a fold on this river?

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Yes, find one on the flop first, though.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

LOL

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Flop call isn't terrible. I bet alot of these coordinated flops to scare people off. Turn check is standard. River call should be standard too. 2nd nuts. Ship it.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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sure he can. Ax Kc

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Doesn't that hand bet the turn for value w/a great redraw?

Krishan

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could be a missed c/r.

without a read, river is a fold. is he overbetting a 4 club board with a Tc or worse? Cmon.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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Flop call isn't terrible. I bet alot of these coordinated flops to scare people off. Turn check is standard. River call should be standard too. 2nd nuts. Ship it.

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Even donkeys can read hands. He's not pushing with the Jc here.

Just fold on the flop.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

Fold the flop for sure. I probably call the river, but you shouldve never seen the river in the first place.

Re: I stepped in buffaloo poo...
 

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Don't draw to non-nut one card flush draws in big raised pots with no immediate odds and no implied odds and no clue where you stand if you do hit.

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I havent read the whole thread, and this comment isn't about the specific hand in question, but isn't this fact more of a reason to like your draw than to dislike it?