Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

This question is mostly for people whose sole income is from poker (be it online or B&M or both).

Ok let's say I decide to go pro, I have my nest egg of several months expenses in the bank and I have a very large bankroll (let's say 1000 BB for my chosen limit).

Alright, so how do I "pay" myself? First, how often? Monthly is simple enough, but how does it work? It seems to me you would want to make your payments over large periods rather than short, to make things more even with variance and all.

If at the end of the month I have 1100 BB in my bankroll I pay myself 100 BB? Basically whatever I have over my original 1000 BB at the end of each month is my "salary" for that month?

What if I have a KILLER month where I win 500 BB, do I take it all or just what I need for my expenses and let my roll grow?

What about those horrible months where you lose, say at the end of one month my roll is 900 BB (I lost 100 BB for the month in this example). Do I simply not take a salary that month and instead pay my bills out of my nest egg?

How do ya'll structure things if any? If I were to go pro (not gonna happen... at least not for a long time) I would want a very strict and defined schedule of how my bankroll/monthly payments worked.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I just have a set amount that I cash out of Neteller every week. Though it's not always cut and dry. If I don't need the money, I will tend to forget about it. Then I get really cash poor by the end of the week and have to cash out more then usual. I'm probably not a good example since I don't have many things to pay every month. I don't like the idea of saying, "I'm going to have an xBB roll," and then cashing out everything above that. If you're over rolled and not planning on moving up you probably do better just to increase your "pay" a little.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I cashout 1/2 my monthly nut on the 1st sunday of the month, and the other half on the 3rd sunday. I leave any other earnings over my monthly nut in my working bankroll.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I just take out what I need to pay bills and buy what I want. The rest I leave in my bankroll (most in my ING account). Next year I am going to start investing.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I just cash-out whenever I feel like it.

It's all my money (in my bank, neteller and on the sites) so I don't really feel like it's 'paying myself' but rather just moving money around.


If I have a ton online and my checking account is a little low-ish or I have a bigger expense coming up then I move some money over there.
I have gone 2-3 months without moving any money from neteller to my bank simply because I didn't have any reason to.


Obviously how you do it is up to you.
you can do it in such a way that your online account doesn't go over 500BB's...or you can do $2k/week if that's what you expect to make...or whatever.


but it's all YOUR money.
Moving it around is just moving it around.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I put my rakeback in my bank account and keep everything else for my bankroll. That seems to be working out well.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I got direct deposit set-up through the accounting department.

No more paper checks for me!

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I have made a set amount I cash out each month (I have a 6 month non-bankroll buffer in addition). I think making salary based upon results is more tilt-provoking than motivating, since monthly results are relatively independent of effort. If I run bad, it makes it necessary for me to step down/ delay stepping up, but that can be healthy in those situations anyway.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Not really a pro, I think of myself as a low level semi-pro.

Finishing up my degree and don't really have much in the way of expenses so it doesn't require me to withdrawal much.

But I withdrawal any rakeback and bonuses as income. My winnings I use to build my roll so I can move to higher limits.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Like the majority of the people that posted, I cash out when I need to spend money. Otherwise it's sits in neteller or in the pokersites I play. Someone already mentioned they are hoping to invest the stagnant money in the future. This is also something I am hoping to do.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just take out what I need to pay bills and buy what I want. The rest I leave in my bankroll (most in my ING account). Next year I am going to start investing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, save the investing part. Im risk averse and love ING.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

i love being able to keep my bankroll my bankroll and live off of rakeback although when i have a bad month i normally have to use rakeback in my account ( maybe dont have to but i like to keep a lot of BB's in my account )

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

At the end of each month I cash out half my winnings and all my rakeback (and bonuses, when those were worth hunting).

Probably going to up this to two thirds of my winnings, as my roll is growing faster than my skill currently.

I hate stepping down, so I use a 1000BB roll for shorthanded play. Probably going to up that eventually to 2000BB, been damn near a 500BB downswing, which would in fact push me down a level currently. I still don't withdraw the entire excess at the end of the month, eventually I want to step up.

A month is in theory 60k hands long for me, but all too often end up at a measly 45k. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I use my credit card for all the little purchases throughout the month (gas, groceries, etc) and pay it off each month.
I withdraw the last week of the month to pay all my bills for the next month.
I withdraw once more mid-month to add to savings.

The only times this does not apply is the month I went on vacation and the bad month I had where I only brought in 1500. Not enough with 2 kids (child support + joint custody), ex wife, girlfriend, and all my bad habits. That's why I set aside as much as possible. Difficult to grow the roll, but much safer.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Not pro for another month or so, but here's my plan:

-have a set number as my necessary bankroll. Anything over that amount, cash out periodically (I'm thinking twice a month, but may go to monthly).

-from this cash out, pay myself a fixed paycheck. The rest goes into an ING account that can be withdrawn from for two reasons: add to bankroll when moving up, and help fund paychecks in bad months.

I'm suprised so many pros in this thread are so "meh" with their finances.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I'm on the very very very bottom of the semi pro ladder. I have a (small) fixed amount that I know I need to supplement my income (since my wife is now home taking care of our daughter). I take that out once/month at the end of the month. Anything more goes toward my BR (trying to move up so I can (thoeretically) play less and make the same). Currently my rakeback is covering the amount I need to w/d.

I'm also surprised that so many pros are so "meh."

FishNChips

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

so...you are not planning on moving up at all?

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not pro for another month or so, but here's my plan:

-have a set number as my necessary bankroll. Anything over that amount, cash out periodically (I'm thinking twice a month, but may go to monthly).

-from this cash out, pay myself a fixed paycheck. The rest goes into an ING account that can be withdrawn from for two reasons: add to bankroll when moving up, and help fund paychecks in bad months.

I'm suprised so many pros in this thread are so "meh" with their finances.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it is all their money. Whether it is in party poker, neteller, ing, or their checking account. As someone else said, all you are doing is moving it.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I was going to jump on that. If all you take out are living expenses then it doesn't really matter where your money is. The only time I have to evaluate the cash is when I'm going to take vacation, move up, drop down etc. PT and logging bonuses will give me a picture of hourly rate, monthly income, and the sort.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Another question to add to this.

When going in the bank I often have problems getting some credit services due to not having contractual employment (and thus more guarenteed income for them).

Do you class it as simply income? Self employed? How do you get around not having a contract?

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

[ QUOTE ]
so...you are not planning on moving up at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

my "paycheck" will be somewhat lower than my expected earn. I expect to make 30 buy-ins a month, so my paycheck will be something like 20-25 buy-ins. The rest goes into the ING account and eveuntually allows me to move up.

[ QUOTE ]
Because it is all their money. Whether it is in party poker, neteller, ing, or their checking account. As someone else said, all you are doing is moving it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the money actually is makes little difference, it's the lack of a budget or structured plan that makes this bad. When your income >> expenses it's not a big problem so i'm sure it looks like it's working fine for you. I'd imagine most people with this attitude are in their late teens / early twenties and haven't had to support themselves on a non-poker job before.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another question to add to this.

When going in the bank I often have problems getting some credit services due to not having contractual employment (and thus more guarenteed income for them).

Do you class it as simply income? Self employed? How do you get around not having a contract?

[/ QUOTE ]
I've often wondered this as well...

Do pros incorporate themselves, perhaps creating a LLC with themselves as the sole employee?

I've heard of groups of independant computer consultants that all work under a shell organization in order to take advantage of tax and insurance related stuff. Not sure if this type of thing would relate to the cash based poker world, but still curious...

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because it is all their money. Whether it is in party poker, neteller, ing, or their checking account. As someone else said, all you are doing is moving it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where the money actually is makes little difference, it's the lack of a budget or structured plan that makes this bad. When your income >> expenses it's not a big problem so i'm sure it looks like it's working fine for you. I'd imagine most people with this attitude are in their late teens / early twenties and haven't had to support themselves on a non-poker job before.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am in my early 20s and am in my last year of school, but I have had to support myself on a real job before. Also, my poker income is much larger than what I need to live. I can see how this would make a large difference. I guess I've never really seen a need for a budget. I should probably take this into greater consideration.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I have a 500BB bankroll and I simply cashout whenever I am 50BB over that (in my case, that's $500). This may seem like its too often to some people, but I like the fact that a cash out is never far away (usually). It helps me focus on the game more if I have a short term goal like this, rather than waiting until the end of the month or whatever.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Not that I'm a pro, but I do okay, so I'll answer anyway. Since my wife is the primary income, I withdraw whenever it's demanded of me. Poker money generally goes for fun stuff, so we set a target and when I reach it, out it goes. I just let her know how much I need to keep in, right now that's enough to maintain 2/4 and 3/6 games and max out bonuses so that I rarely play without one.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

You are assuming that we are all undisciplined, don't understand money etc.. Budget and plans are an invention for those who lack discipline/self control and not needed for those who have it.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another question to add to this.

When going in the bank I often have problems getting some credit services due to not having contractual employment (and thus more guarenteed income for them).

Do you class it as simply income? Self employed? How do you get around not having a contract?

[/ QUOTE ]
I've often wondered this as well...

Do pros incorporate themselves, perhaps creating a LLC with themselves as the sole employee?

I've heard of groups of independant computer consultants that all work under a shell organization in order to take advantage of tax and insurance related stuff. Not sure if this type of thing would relate to the cash based poker world, but still curious...

[/ QUOTE ]

My dad gave me this advice. He said I should start a company as me as the sole employee. Then give myself a paycheck, and write off crazy buisness expenses instead of claiming pro gambler. He was vague on the details but it seemed like he knew what he was talking about. This is also what drug dealers do.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

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When your income >> expenses it's not a big problem

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I understand the point of money management. I think for most of the pros that aren't looking to buy BMW's and 3 story houses, taking out the money for basic living expenses is done as needed.

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

I'm not sure you have covered this, but being based in the UK wouldn't this jeoperdise a lot of the tax-free benefits of poker?

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

i pull as much out as possible so im playing on as short a roll as possible so im permanently pissed that i have to keep reloading. its not the best way to do things.

ok on a more serious note, basically i just cash out whenever i feel like it. bills are cheap for a single 19 year old, cars paid off, need MAYBE 1500 a month to get by. of course, the amount i actually go through a month is quite a bit more.. but im working on that. yea i never get paid. i hate any kind of structure in life. holla

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Dude I love your icon Obsidian, where'd u get it? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Question for pros, how do you \"pay\" yourself?
 

Either online or in cash around the house, when it gets to 10k I deposit 5k in the bank.