Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

I am having trouble lately with early position raisers having small pocket pairs in Party full ring games. Either I am in Early/Middle position with AK or I smooth call with AA from late position to try to win a big pot off of KK or QQ. It is so difficult to put them on a set when the board comes with all low cards. Any thoughts on this? Should I reraise QQ+, AK if I am having a hard time getting away from this? Is this just a play that I have to pay off an unknown when they hit it? This has probably happened 3 times in the last 3 weeks against players I didn't have notes on. I am thinking that I should put in a reraise against unknown players with a high raise percentage. Thoughts?

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

Yes, reraise preflop

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

christ.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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christ.

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I chuckled [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

*Waiting for El D's answer to get a good laugh*

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

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LOL.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

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LOL.

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i'm 73% sure that post was sarcastic.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

So in a full 10 handed game and there is a 4x raise UTG or UTG+1 you reraise everytime from the button w/ AA when it is folded around to you?

If not, it is easy for you to get away on a 7 high flop?

Do you specifically see people raising a lot with small pocket pairs in full ring games on party from UTG?

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

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LOL.

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i'm 73% sure that post was sarcastic.

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I'm 85% sure that you're wrong.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

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LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm 73% sure that post was sarcastic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 85% sure that you're wrong.

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I got no clue, but for his sake, I hope it was.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm 73% sure that post was sarcastic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 85% sure that you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got no clue, but for his sake, I hope it was.

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Everyone knows you get value out of AA vs an underpair by letting them see the flop.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

[/ QUOTE ]
Awesome.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

I can see why you guys think this post was so funny and I guess I can see that you guys reraise big pairs preflop no matter what range you guys put the villian on. Its not like I am saying that I am smooth calling with aces preflop no matter where the raise came from regardless of my position. Most of the time there is a reraise after an UTG raiser people automatically put you on KK+ and I was trying to avoid that.

Does anyone who actually plays full ring care to comment on how many people they see raising UTG with small pocket pairs at 5/10 and 10/20 on party? If you see it a lot then I can see why this post might be that funny. If not, then it is a perfectly legitimate post. If you don't even play full ring on Party then I don't know why you are responding to this post.. much less in a negative way.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

i don't play 10/20 and i don't play fullring but i still find it painfully obvious. if you find that people put you on KK+ every time you reraise an EP raiser preflop and you seriously have no idea how to adapt or take advantage of that, you're an idiot and should move down in stakes. there.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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i don't play 10/20 and i don't play fullring but i still find it painfully obvious. if you find that people put you on KK+ every time you reraise an EP raiser preflop and you seriously have no idea how to adapt or take advantage of that, you're an idiot and should move down in stakes. there.

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i will move down in stakes when it is not profitable for me to play at these stakes. it is not just me that people put on a big pair.. it is most of the people who play full ring and it is not so much about that as it is me putting people on small pairs when they raise from EP. i smooth call preflop in some situations with AA and i think it is the right play for a couple of different reasons. the main point of the post is to find out the frequency of people raising preflop from EP with small pairs in the specific game that i play in because i just started seeing it.

if it is so painfully obvious to you and if i am such an idiot.. why don't you move up in stakes?

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

if everyone at 10/20 made these posts, i would even though i am grossly underrolled.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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Don't let short term results fool you. Keep playing your solid game. Players who raise low pocket pairs preflop will certainly go broke in the long run. Sometimes you can reraise with AA preflop, but frankly you're giving up too much money by not trapping them. Good post.

Regards,

Fin

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LOL.

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i'm 73% sure that post was sarcastic.

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I'm 85% sure that you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 100% sure that you're wrong.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Regards,

Fin

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

i am done with this thread because obviously people think it is a horrible question... which i still don't get.. and i can take a little bit of [censored] from other people here that know what they are talking about but you can go back to 1/2 and stop talking trash about my bad posts

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

Play 6-max so you can correctly re-raise anything.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

If this is serious I am stunned. I don't play 10/20 because I can't play it profitably. I don't see how you can either.

Yes you wanna be reraising more frequently than KK+.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

Geez this HSNL forum is full of ass holes.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

What's funny about your post is you think raising these pairs in ep is a leak, people are destined to go broke, yada yada whereas most see the opportunity in raising these pairs.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

Hi d1sterbd,

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Most of the time there is a reraise after an UTG raiser people automatically put you on KK+

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There must be some way to exploit this...

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

One of your objectives in poker is to find a way for your opponents to make incorrect decisions against you. By smooth calling an upfront raiser, you are not giving your opponent any decision to make when you have aa (or what you think is a better hand kketc...). Therefore, if you plan on not getting away from aces after the flop, you should make a raise that gives your opponent incorrect implied odds comparative to your stack size to call. Otherwise you should be playing aces very carefully in a full ring game.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

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What's funny about your post is you think raising these pairs in ep is a leak, people are destined to go broke, yada yada whereas most see the opportunity in raising these pairs.

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I didn't say that or anything close to it. If anything, I like the play some percentage of the time because I think that people in the game will make the same read as I did and you can get paid off more when you hit a set and win most of the pots with continuation bets when other people do not hit sets against you. Most regulars do not raise from EP with small pairs so the second part of your statement is also incorrect.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

I think this is a fantastic idea... definitely go ahead and reraise players who are laggy with qq+. Go for it!
I mean why let them hit those little sets right?

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

I tend to like to raise pre flop with Aces most of the time. That seems to be +EV for me. But then in late position I raise some other stuff too every now and then in late psoition.

When I have a bad vibe I sometimes fold aces pre-flop.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

You guys act like I am saying that I always smooth call preflop with AA and then I play for stacks after that. I reraise preflop more than at least 80% of the people I play against. My range is fairly wide when reraising middle and late position raisers so it doesn't make sense for me to smooth call when I actually have a big hand.

Until recently, I very rarely saw anyone show down a small pocket pair after raising from UTG. Why would I not incorporate that into my reads? Why would I not mix it up and smooth call preflop when I think we will take the flop heads up? Against a lot of players that I play against it would be correct to find a way to get their entire stack in the middle on a 7 high flop after they raise preflop from EP. This is true whether I reraise preflop or smooth call. I would be giving up value against these players if I did not give action on low card flops.

I am just saying that I definitely discount small pocket pairs after I see an EP raise. Against most people I play against my read is correct. In these specific instances I didn't get it all in because I wasn't familiar with their play but I did lose decent sized pots.

I am starting to see more people raising from EP with small pocket pairs so I posted about it and adjusted my play. Apparently more people raise with small pocket pairs from UTG then I estimated in full ring games (which is the point of my post) or you guys are just being complete dicks.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

I think the best way to get the answer is to log poker tracker hands and do the raise with low pairs in full ring early position a few hundred times. I don't really know what the answer is going to be.

Please let me know when you find out.

Re: Trouble with UTG raisers having small pairs
 

As an ignorant short handed player I always assumed Aces or Kings would be a nightmare at full ring... Also watch out with big pocket pairs if someone has raised in early position, i hear they are doing this a lot with small PPs these days...