Fossilman continues to get respect
 

Steve Rosenbloom mailbag:

From blantrip: "I was looking over the 2006 WSOP schedule and it looks crazy. The main event is so long, you have to be rich just to play in it for two weeks! Why don't they raise the entry fee and limit the field of nonprofessionals? If this where to happen, it seems like it would make it a little more exclusive.''


Who says an exclusive main event is good? <font color="blue">Like they say, anyone can enter and anyone can win. And when anyone such as Chris Moneymaker and Greg Raymer indeed do win, then the game grows, and I think that's a good thing."</font>

More and more I realize how lucky Greg must have been to win in, being an average schmoe like everyone else playing... Fossilman, when you get some real playing ability, do make sure to let everyone know. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

Somehow I get the feeling that there is a whole history leading up to this post...but

didn't Greg Raymer get pretty far too this year?

I'm really not a good enough (MTT) player to give a constructive opinion wether he has real playing ability or not but it seems he's not doing too shabby.

Either way it's fine with me, just wondered how you got all fanatic about this [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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I'm really not a good enough (MTT) player to give a constructive opinion wether he has real playing ability or not but it seems he's not doing too shabby.

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Fossilman typically played the Foxwoods games from about 30/60 to 300/600--before he won. It would be a lot more accurate to describe him as a semi-pro than an amateur.

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Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/sear...eve+Rosenbloom

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well done

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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I'm really not a good enough (MTT) player to give a constructive opinion wether he has real playing ability or not but it seems he's not doing too shabby.

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Fossilman typically played the Foxwoods games from about 30/60 to 300/600--before he won. It would be a lot more accurate to describe him as an American Bad Ass.

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FYP

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

Don't forget that he made it to the final 2 tables in the ME in (I think) '98.

Note: yes, I am being too lazy to look it up [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

Raising the buy-in is only gonna knock out the poor "professionals", the rich guys will still be there.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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Raising the buy-in is only gonna knock out the poor "professionals", the rich guys will still be there.

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Bingo.

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I suppose Moneymaker and Raymer will never really get much credit for being anything but really lucky guys, no matter what they do. I guess having million$ of dollars help them cope. I wonder if Raymer cashed more in the WSOP than Steve Rosenbloom made all of 2005?

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

I say we each write a letter to a rich famous person. I think I will write one to Andy Beal. Slivre, you can have Bill Gates. Easy, I don't know why, but I think you would be the best one to write to Diddy.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

it has been my opinion that no matter how good you are or semi-pro/pro, that if you're not on TV a lot or in Vegas, they assume you're an amateur -

hell, didn't Chau Giang start playing tourneys cause his kids said if he was famous, then why wasn't he on TV?

I'm sure Fossilman isn't losing any sleep over it - LOL - but he certainly earned the bracelet that year - he didn't luck into it although all winners get a litte lucky.

RB

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hell, didn't Chau Giang start playing tourneys cause his kids said if he was famous, then why wasn't he on TV?


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was chip reese.

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hell, didn't Chau Giang start playing tourneys cause his kids said if he was famous, then why wasn't he on TV?


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was chip reese.

[/ QUOTE ]was chau also

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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More and more I realize how lucky Greg must have been to win in, being an average schmoe like everyone else playing... Fossilman, when you get some real playing ability, do make sure to let everyone know. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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i think it should be noted rosenbloom didnt say this, rather the OP did. So while rosenbloom surely deserves bashing, it shouldnt be for this comment.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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I'm really not a good enough (MTT) player to give a constructive opinion wether he has real playing ability or not but it seems he's not doing too shabby.

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Fossilman typically played the Foxwoods games from about 30/60 to 300/600--before he won. It would be a lot more accurate to describe him as a semi-pro than an amateur.

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300-600? Really? From what I've heard about his prior bamkroll situation, I find this HIGHLY doubtful pre WSOP win. I think I heard 50-100. 300-600 takes a 200k roll to play near right, he didn't have it, and was smart enough to not play that deep over his head.

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I thought Greg said he played the $150/300 mixed game on occasion, and at least $75/150 somewhat regularly. But I could be wrong.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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I thought Greg said he played the $150/300 mixed game on occasion, and at least $75/150 somewhat regularly. But I could be wrong.

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I guess it's possible. I do know he was about half BR'd through friends also and it was a profitable, but not insanely so, relationship.

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Who is Steven Rosenbloom?

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Who is Steven Rosenbloom?

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Decent sports writer for the Chicago Tribune, who about 2 years ago started interviewing poker players and writing a column on poker, which has errors in it FAR more often than not, both tactical and literal.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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I'm really not a good enough (MTT) player to give a constructive opinion wether he has real playing ability or not but it seems he's not doing too shabby.

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Fossilman typically played the Foxwoods games from about 30/60 to 300/600--before he won. It would be a lot more accurate to describe him as a semi-pro than an amateur.

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300-600? Really? From what I've heard about his prior bamkroll situation, I find this HIGHLY doubtful pre WSOP win. I think I heard 50-100. 300-600 takes a 200k roll to play near right, he didn't have it, and was smart enough to not play that deep over his head.

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I believe Greg played higher when he lived in southern cal before moving to CT.

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Just for the record.

When I moved to CT in 1998, I generally played 20-40 holdem and tournaments. I started winning good money in the tourneys right away, and moved up a bit, but there wasn't often a game above 20-40 other than the big mixed game, which was anything from 75-150 to 150-300. I played in that game when it looked good. I once did play in it when it was 300-600, even though doing so was a huge fraction of my bankroll. Fortunately, I won 12K that session.

In 2002 I took a big hit to my bankroll at the WSOP, and that is when I took on backers. I did so in order to continue playing in the big mixed game, and to be able to afford 10K buyin events at the WSOP and Foxwoods. In a 1.5 year period, the backers made about 20% on their investment. Then, with the WSOP win, they made about 7000%.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

It's surprising to me that you had backers for a cash game partially because I know you have a policy against loaning money in a cardroom. Does this policy not extend to borrowing? Or does it not extend to borrowing money for poker OUTSIDE of the cardroom? ("Outside" meaning "from sources with whom you have at least some interactions outside of the cardroom.") Or is it relatively new?

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Just for the record.

When I moved to CT in 1998, I generally played 20-40 holdem and tournaments. I started winning good money in the tourneys right away, and moved up a bit, but there wasn't often a game above 20-40 other than the big mixed game, which was anything from 75-150 to 150-300. I played in that game when it looked good. I once did play in it when it was 300-600, even though doing so was a huge fraction of my bankroll. Fortunately, I won 12K that session.

In 2002 I took a big hit to my bankroll at the WSOP, and that is when I took on backers. I did so in order to continue playing in the big mixed game, and to be able to afford 10K buyin events at the WSOP and Foxwoods. In a 1.5 year period, the backers made about 20% on their investment. Then, with the WSOP win, they made about 7000%.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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Bah. Only 7000%? I pass. Ya skinflint.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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It's surprising to me that you had backers for a cash game partially because I know you have a policy against loaning money in a cardroom. Does this policy not extend to borrowing? Or does it not extend to borrowing money for poker OUTSIDE of the cardroom? ("Outside" meaning "from sources with whom you have at least some interactions outside of the cardroom.") Or is it relatively new?

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Big difference between backing and loaning.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

It really doesn't matter how many uninformed publications and jealous OPs talk smack about Raymer or call him lucky he has already earned respect from poker's elite. Ivey, who is probably the most respected cash game player in the world said something along the lines of "He is an incredible tournament player, almost impossible to play against because he makes so few mistakes."

I'm sure the OP will shut us all up when he outplays Raymer and wins the 2006 ME, right?

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

I think Easy E was being sarcastic with his last statement.

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More and more I realize how lucky Greg must have been to win in, being an average schmoe like everyone else playing... Fossilman, when you get some real playing ability, do make sure to let everyone know. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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i think it should be noted rosenbloom didnt say this, rather the OP did. So while rosenbloom surely deserves bashing, it shouldnt be for this comment.

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Go back and read the blue section again, then come back and say again that my "exaggeration" was only my words.... unless your definition of "anyone" is a lot higher than average.

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More and more I realize how lucky Greg must have been to win in, being an average schmoe like everyone else playing... Fossilman, when you get some real playing ability, do make sure to let everyone know. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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i think it should be noted rosenbloom didnt say this, rather the OP did. So while rosenbloom surely deserves bashing, it shouldnt be for this comment.

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Go back and read the blue section again, then come back and say again that my "exaggeration" was only my words.... unless your definition of "anyone" is a lot higher than average.

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Its pretty obvious to anyone with any reading comprehension ability at all that in that article he was speaking of public perception of Raymer. And the public perception of Raymer is that he is just anyone, as he's not one of the "poker stars" that are on tv all the time. Most people think Raymer got lucky to win that tournament, but you make it seem like Rosenbloom took a shot at Raymer's ability, when he certainly didn't.

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I'm going to win the WSOP in 4 years, and then Steve can talk about me in his blog. Except, he'll be talking about how great I played.

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and to this day I still regret not having a job and not being able to invest &lt;sniff&gt; - cruel world.

RB

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Well, Fossilman has nothing but respect from me. He has a hell of a good poker game and a lot of class.

Re: Fossilman continues to get respect
 

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Its pretty obvious to anyone with any reading comprehension ability at all that in that article he was speaking of public perception of Raymer.

but you make it seem like Rosenbloom took a shot at Raymer's ability, when he certainly didn't.

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I must have missed Advanced Reading Comprehension then, because when I read this (which is the entire extent of the comments Steve made in his letter reply)

<font color="blue">"Who says an exclusive main event is good? Like they say, anyone can enter and anyone can win. And when anyone such as Chris Moneymaker and Greg Raymer indeed do win, then the game grows, and I think that's a good thing."</font>

... I certainly don't get your interpretation. Now, if you put Greg on Moneymaker's level.. and then put them both on the level of "anyone" who would get into the WSOP ME, then I'll accept your interpretation.

Oh well, back to school for me I guess. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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Just for the record and because I say this to people who ask about it all the time.....

I was one of the investors (thanks to the very enthusiastic approval of Greg by Ray Zee) and although the $$ was a nice score after the WSOP Greg's reports on his play and thinking has been much much more valuable than anything else.

I don't think most people understand what a great poker mind Greg has and how well he thinks about the game, especially tournament poker and all of its nuances.

just my 2 cents, but i did love the 7000% return.

cheers. J.

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I don't mind repeating this, because it's such an amazing and lovely fact. There have been four tournaments in WSOP history that have 2500 entrants or more. Greg Raymer cashed in all four (I believe he is the only person who has done this), and twice made the final tables, obviously winning one.

Greg doesn't have to defend his professional standing to anyone....

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Its pretty obvious to anyone with any reading comprehension ability at all that in that article he was speaking of public perception of Raymer.

but you make it seem like Rosenbloom took a shot at Raymer's ability, when he certainly didn't.

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I must have missed Advanced Reading Comprehension then, because when I read this (which is the entire extent of the comments Steve made in his letter reply)

<font color="blue">"Who says an exclusive main event is good? Like they say, anyone can enter and anyone can win. And when anyone such as Chris Moneymaker and Greg Raymer indeed do win, then the game grows, and I think that's a good thing."</font>

... I certainly don't get your interpretation. Now, if you put Greg on Moneymaker's level.. and then put them both on the level of "anyone" who would get into the WSOP ME, then I'll accept your interpretation.

Oh well, back to school for me I guess. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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i know this, you know this, but 99% of the public doesnt know this, and this is the point of view that this article is written on. When someone like Raymer, who pretty much no one outside of 2+2 had heard of before his wsop win, wins the main event it brings people into the game and the game grows. How is that not what Rosenbloom said? Did he say Greg was a bad player? No

Just as an example, because we're 2+2ers we know who someone like Bicyclekick is, and we know that he's a very good poker player. So lets say that Bicyclekick goes and wins the 2006 Main Event. The general public has never heard of Brian Clark and knows nothing of his playing ability, despite the fact that he's even cashed in a WSOP tourney before, because he's never been on tv, and being a good cash game player doesnt make you a star. So while we'd all know that a very good player won the WSOP, the general public would again see it as just your regular average guy winning the WSOP.

To be honest, no offense to Raymer, but I love the fact that public perception is that he's not a great player, and that he got lucky to win the WSOP. It's good for the game. It brings in new players, most of whom won't be very good, and makes for more profitable games. Think about the public perception right now. A solid aggressive thinking player like Greg is thought of as lucky, while some degenerate gamblers are looked upon as "Poker Superstars". As a poker player, I dont think you could ask for anything better.

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I thought Greg said he played the $150/300 mixed game on occasion, and at least $75/150 somewhat regularly. But I could be wrong.

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I saw Greg play in the 75-150 omaha game at Mohegan before they closed up shop (those idiots!). Greg was also a fixture at the final table of the Tuesday no-limit tourney at Foxwoods. I believe that was considered the best tourney at Foxwoods at the time.

Joe

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Easy E,

After reading a statement like that, I believe these guys are just jealous that they didn't win. Greg is a REAL poker player. Just look at the posts he made on strategy when this forum started the Turnament Forum. He's definately not an opponent I want at my poker table, especially in a tournament.

Good Luck

Mark

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7000% return??? i believe investors put up $500 a point and recieved back around $37,500 which over 18 months is more like 325% apr. which doesn't suck either.

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i was quoting greg on the #.

to tell you the truth i didn't even think about it. lol

thanks, but now i wish it really was 7000%

cheers. J.