200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $134.42
CO: $63.55
Button: $106.65
SB: $99.50
BB: $34.80

Nothing goofy has happened at this table yet and I'm multitabling so no strong reads. Button seemed to have been playing fairly LAGgy although I hadn't noticed anything too out-of-line.

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero calls, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $1</font>, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.25, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks ...

Normally I'd bet here, but I had bet my last two flopped sets at this table into the PFR and everyone folded. So I decided to check and let Button do his thing.

... <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $0.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero ... ?

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

I put in a real reraise and then re-evaluate.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

excellent table selection

Please please please lead the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Normally I'd bet here, but I had bet my last two flopped sets at this table into the PFR and everyone folded

[/ QUOTE ]
This is results oriented--&gt; please stop thinking like this.

I'd reraise to 20, call a push from the button but fold to a push from the BB.

Also, I like a raise pf, but limping utg isn't terrible.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

Well I think a PSR is in order.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

hero calls

we may have more callers behind who are drawing and it increases our pot odds here. i dont normally advocate doing this but i cant see a raise here which will push out worse hands and only have hands that beat us call with the exception of top 2. so i advocate calling hitting your boat/quads and stacking the flopped nut

this is why we bet on draw heavy boards when we flop something. it makes our decisions much easier

i call any further weak aggression on the turn and release unimproved to PSBing aggression

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

That's a super draw heavy flop and you have bottom set, bet out on the flop, do you want to let everyone draw out on you for free?

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

spewy?????. what hand is actually folding that we beat. top 2 is the only hand that calls here which we are ahead of. unless the table is real bad and someone wants to go broke with TP. i still think that my line of a call may be in order here because of the retarded action behind us

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

machine-

i think CO has air, maybe a FD. I think button has an overpair or a FD with overs. I think BB has a wide range of hands, from those that kill us (44,77, 56) to those we kill (88+). Also, because it was just a minraise pf, he could potentially have rando 2 pair cards like 74, 73, and 43.

At least one of our opponents is likely to be drawing, and our hand is likely to be best, so we can't just call here. If we raise to 20 and BB pushes... now we're in a conundrum. However, I think we stack button a lot here if we raise and BB folds. However... it'd be much easier to do if we led the flop.

Also, if it becomes a situation where all four of you are getting it in... get it in. I think i take my chances with higher sets for the chance to quadruple up.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

Machine - Here's my thinking

CO could have anything
Button could be C-betting, betting overpairs, betting overs + FD
SB could be Ch-MiniRaising with a set, a straight, a combo draw (pair+fd/sd), overpair

I think we need to consider are relative position in the hand.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

I think you need to seriously consider potting here, which means 25.75 or some number near that. You are prolly ahead here, but the thing you need to realize is that you likely have no redraws here vs a made flush. Might even be drawing to 2 outs already... i wouldnt be so scared if it was just you vs the button, cause you prolly have him beat (his pf raise sucked, and his flop bet isnt very convincing) but the BB woke up with something cause he got to play for free.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

yeah itd be eaiser if we lead the flop and then i like a reraise but as played i think a call might be best here. i usually agree with pushing sets hard on these boards but hero checked and we are facing 3 bets in front of us. i may be wrong but i havent ever put myself in this spot so maybe my line isnt optimal but this is how id play it

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah itd be eaiser if we lead the flop and then i like a reraise but as played i think a call might be best here. i usually agree with pushing sets hard on these boards but hero checked and we are facing 3 bets in front of us. i may be wrong but i havent ever put myself in this spot so maybe my line isnt optimal but this is how id play it

[/ QUOTE ]
Calling here is simply awful.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

so if we raise and get reraised are we folding? now that my friend is awful

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

It seemed to me like BB snuck in preflop, flopped a monster (56 or maybe 77/44), doesn't want people to fold, and wants to rope people in while building a pot. He check minreraised for crying out loud. You guys REALLY think he's taking this line with an overpair?

FWIW, I folded. I had planned to nail Button with his overpair or whatever, but after the given action, I couldn't imagine BB having a hand that I could beat. Flame away.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

as played i even dont mind a fold. unless villain is a massive donk we arent ahead enough here to warrant a reraise. IMO

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

yeah i understand berge. the problem here is that hero misplayed his hand and we very likely could be drawing to 1 out so i think a reraise is complete spewage. there is enough action behind us to warrant a flat call in this spot.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

We could be drawing to 1 out or need to protect against flush draws/straight draws. If I call, I have no clue which and I'm sitting sandwitched between the two people giving action.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

Raise preflop.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

so youre saying to raise to find out where we are at. i do remember reading a post about how bad it is to raise to find out where we are at a few days ago. im not saying you are wrong im just saying that i dont know if your line is optimal. mine might not be either but ive never been in this situation so i couldnt give the exact best answer

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
yep...lets build a pot...exactly for this reason presented. and don't fold unless you have a super mega awesome read.

Re: 200BB deep, bottom set, ugly action
 

I need to re-read that post again, but I find it hard to believe it was at all a similar situation. If anyone has a link, please PM me or post a link. I'm raising for many things here, one of which is information. Given stack depth, I don't think raising for information alone is a bad thing. I also think there is a fair possiblity we are also raising for value and protection.

Since I lead strong at this pot every time too, I fully believe neither of the lines we are presenting are the best.