Can you Ace my quiz?
 

6 max. .50/1.00. All players have $100 stacks. All players play an aggressive smart post-flop style.

HAND 1:
The UTG who has a raising range of (88+, AQo+), raises to $3.50. It's folded around to the Hero in the BB who has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Do you Fold? Call? ReRaise?

HAND 2:
The UTG who has a raising range of (88+, AQo+), raises to $3.50. It's folded around to the Hero in the BB who has 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Do you Fold? Call? ReRaise?

HAND 3:

The Button who has a raising range of (22+, A8o+, A2s+, any suited...single...double gap suited connectors), raises to $3.50. It's folded around to the Hero in the BB who has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Do you Fold? Call? ReRaise?

Hand 4:

The Button who has a raising range of (22+, A8o+, A2s+, any suited...single...double gap suited connectors), raises to $3.50. It's folded around to the Hero in the BB who has 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Do you Fold? Call? ReRaise?

I think this might be more interesting than it initially seems.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Hand 1 and 3 I probably reraise 50% and call 50%, but lead more often than when I hit my Q or A.

Hand 2 and 4 I just call for a set.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Hands 1&2: Fold. You're either flipping or WB

Hand 3: Reraise and lead flop. You're ahead of his range.

Hand 4: Fold. If he's smart post flop you're not getting paid enough to try to hit your set, and if you don't hit you're basically done with your hand, unless you have a read that he folds the flop if he doesn't hit.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

fold/call/raise for 1, 2 and 3.

Final one call or reraise are both OK.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

This is my virgin post in the ssnl forum so be kind. I was/am a sng guy but I would like to develop the rest of my game so I have started to play ssnl.

Alas, here are my answers. Please let me know if my thinking is flawed.

1) I fold this hand? it is a weak hand in weak position and most flops miss me. Or, I call this hand and c bet 2/3 pot on any flop as most flops miss him and he is a good post flop player who will thus fold?

2)I fold this? he is good ps and I will thus not get any money out of him if I hit my set. Or, I call this with the intention of c betting 2/3 pot on any missed flop, and check calling until the river when I push if I hit my set as he will pay me off?

3)I call here and and c bet the pot on any flop as most flops miss him. Or, I re-raise here and hope to move him off his sooooted connectors now? If he calls me I check fold any flop that doesn't hit me really well.

4) I call here and check call any 1/2 pot bets or smaller to the river in order to make him honest on later hands and hope for a set along the way. Or, I fold as I am not getting the odds to set farm?

How do these lines sound?

Ryan

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Since we obviously have a good read on him my answers as follow. In reality I wouldn't have a read like this and I wouldn't be folding either of these, except perhaps nr 2.

1) Fold
2) Fold
3) Reraise
4) Call

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Fold
Call
Re-raise
Fold

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

1) fold to that range of hands

2-4) call

Always calling 33 for set value with these stack sizes, and calling AQ against button's range.

Edit - good post, nice quiz

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

I fold/call/raise/call. I don't like reraising the last one because you're out of position. Unless you think he'll fold to a c-bet on an A high flop, I'd rather smooth call and try to spike my set. I don't like calling raises in the BB with AQo because it's so hard to know where you are, and you're basically gearing up to play a big pot with a "good" hand OOP.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Fold
Call
Call
Call

Pairs own!

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

interesting that you choose that AQo hand (#3). ones very close to it appear in the new Sklansky / Miller no limit book and in the upcoming Small Stakes No Limit, with quite different approaches.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold/call/raise/call. I don't like reraising the last one because you're out of position. Unless you think he'll fold to a c-bet on an A high flop, I'd rather smooth call and try to spike my set. I don't like calling raises in the BB with AQo because it's so hard to know where you are, and you're basically gearing up to play a big pot with a "good" hand OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're hoping to take down hand 3 preflop with your raise? Otherwise you are creating the big pot you say you don't want to play OOP.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Matt,

I was going to send you a PM but I'll make my plea a public one. Please please post more here and encourage your co-author to do the same! That is all. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I seriously wish more of the higher stakes posters would "slum" from time to time in here. We have a lot of good posters here and most SSNL situations are fairly easy to pick apart but it would be great to see their perspective on hands.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Fold
Call
Call
Call


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I would have said.

I hate building a pot preflop against a raiser when I'll be heads-up and OOP postflop. Better to see a (relatively) inexpensive flop with a hand that's got tons of potential, and then either check/fold or float if I miss (depending on my opponent's tendencies) or check/call or check/raise the flop if I hit (again depending on my specific opponent).

If we include a c-bet as a given, then we're getting about 5-to-1 implied odds on a call here, with potential for much more if the flop hits our opponent but hits us harder. That's worth a bit of a chase.

Note: I fold hand #1 because it's a coinflip at best and a severely dominated hand at worst. We're likely to win very little if we're ahead but lose a great deal if we're behind, and we won't know for sure until the showdown.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold/call/raise for 1, 2 and 3.

Final one call or reraise are both OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold/call/raise for 1, 2 and 3.

Final one call or reraise are both OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Help a brother out, what's the thought behind the raise on hand 3?

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold
Call
Call
Call

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

1 - fold
2 - call
3 - call or reraise (60/40)
4 - call or reraise (80/20)
5 -

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1 - fold
2 - call
3 - call or reraise (60/40)
4 - call or reraise (80/20)
5 -
6 - <font color="blue">profit!</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

buk- if we call, we are kinda awkward, if we raise, he's kinda awkward on the flop. we're ahead of his range, and having that initiative will help us take the pot down. Also, it keeps him from stealing so much. I've started reraising out of the blinds because i hate it so much when people do it to me.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold/call/raise for 1, 2 and 3.

Final one call or reraise are both OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Help a brother out, what's the thought behind the raise on hand 3?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's raising a load of total crap that we dominate. Force him to lay it down or put money in as a dog. If called we still have a hand to play, and with the initiative we have a much better chance of winning.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

1) EZ Fold (Good chance of being dominated even if you hit)
2) EZ Call (Set value)
3) Call (Sometimes re-reraise)
4) EZ Call

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

All,

I think that calling in hand 4 for purely set value is wrong.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

I like this kind of thinking. I think similar logic applies to the other hands. And yes i'm being obtuse on purpose.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
All,

I think that calling in hand 4 for purely set value is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

you suggest reraising more often then calling then?

I dont like playing this hand OOP and against a wide range, you dont know where you at. Either way i think you have to lead the flop though or c/r maybe a strong line?

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

I think 3 and 4 are both clear reraises.

Calling in hand 4 and playing exclusively for set value is just asking for the button to take your money IMO. Against his range, you have terrible implied odds for your set. But you do have lots of FE: reraise and make him pay for trying to steal your blinds.

I think #2 is a clear call. You can play for set value only and be fine, or you can play a bit more aggressively if you know what you're doing.

#1 is the most difficult IMO. I will sometimes call, sometimes reraise, and sometimes fold in this spot. I think calling is probably not a great idea but I will do it sometimes. My default is to reraise, but if UTG really is that tight in his raising standards I can see folding.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

I'll try. Full time job plus kids plus baseball / Indian Guides / etc plus book to write plus poker plus can't type makes it difficult.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

YAD-

THE BIG WINNER!!! You ACED my quiz.

But I'd fold Hand 4, the vast majority of the time. On occasion, I'll reraise.

And you're right, Hand 1 is tough. I thought of making his hand range tighter to make it a more obvious FOLD!

Well done.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]

#1 is the most difficult IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

H1 is by far the easiest. Fold this every single time against that range.

Btw, villain is a flipping nit.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll try. Full time job plus kids plus baseball / Indian Guides / etc plus book to write plus poker plus can't type makes it difficult.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood. I have a life as well. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Figured it couldnt hurt to ask. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

PS Does your coauthor have a life? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Hand 1: call? according to PokerStove, we have 37% equity right now. The pot is laying 2:1. In FR, I normally call here and fold unimproved.

Hand 2: easy call. closing the action, play for set value.

Hand 3: depending on reads, I think arguments can be made for calling and re-raising

Hand 4: call. why push him off his trash hand? I want the chance to flop a set and stack him.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All,

I think that calling in hand 4 for purely set value is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

you suggest reraising more often then calling then?

I dont like playing this hand OOP and against a wide range, you dont know where you at. Either way i think you have to lead the flop though or c/r maybe a strong line?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's okay to call, but I try be aggressive on flops where I can represent a lot of hands (combo draws and stuff), or very dry flops that are unlikely to have hit villain. Most tags just give up in these situations if you don't play back at them too often.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

*grunch*

I 3-bet every hand but hand 2.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

To everyone advocating reraising with ANY of these hands:

Position is king in SSNL. Why would you build a pot preflop and OOP with a speculative hand against a player who plays "an aggressive smart post-flop style"? You've got the odds to call in these situations, but to me these don't seem like reraising hands without position. A decent reraise would be bumping it to $10 to $12. Let's say we make it $10. I assume we're also planning to c-bet any flop, yeah? That's $15 more. We've now committed 1/4 of our stack with a highly speculative hand and with no idea where we stand. Someone who is aggressive and smart postflop could easily float us and steal a quarter of our stack on the turn, or slowplay us and take even more of our stack when they hit.

Being OOP sucks hot sweaty monkey balls. Given that we're going to be OOP against a smart AND aggressive opponent, I see no reason to bloat this pot with a speculative hand. If he were a total nimrod, raising would be more reasonable, especially with the AQ hands; as it stands, I'm really just wanting to see a flop before I start throwing in big fractions of my stack on these hands.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Fold.
Call.
Re-raise or Call.
Fold or Re-raise. Calling sucks with this one, unless we are going to be bluffing him a lot, we have crappy implied odds.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
All,

I think that calling in hand 4 for purely set value is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Missed this. You are right.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

JOEYBITCH

[ QUOTE ]
JOEY VS. ROLF SLOTBOOM

HEY SCUM,

WHAT'S UP WITH POKER WRITER'S OBSESSION WITH MAKING TESTS AND QUIZZES? JOEY'S ALREADY LET YOU KNOW THE TRUTH- YOU ARE ALL PATHETIC DEGENERATE GAMBLERS WHO WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE ALL YOUR MONEY. BUT, SINCE YOU PIGS SEEM TO NEED THESE TESTS, HERE'S JOEY'S TEST: DO YOU PLAY POKER? IF YOU ANSERED "YES", THEN YOU ARE A PATHETIC DEGENERATE GAMBLER WHO WILL EVENTUALLY LOOSE ALL YOUR MONEY. THERE, THAT SHOULD SETTLE IT.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOLOLOL

too bad I don't know what to do with the hands. I probably call the pairs for set value but it doesnt seem that's right

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All,

I think that calling in hand 4 for purely set value is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Missed this. You are right.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're throwing $2.50 into a pot that will has $5, with an opponent who is going to c-bet us virtually 100% of the time when we hit our set (that should be an extra $6-$7.50). That's giving us a pretty solid look at 5-to-1 odds, plus anything we can squeeze out of him after that. Set draws are 7.5-to-1 against, so if we can grab an extra $10 out of him on the turn and/or river, we're making a profit. After his c-bet and our call, we'll have a pot with $20ish; I think our implied odds are just fine here.

Re: Can you Ace my quiz?
 

Hand 4 is the toughest methinks (on reflection).

Reraising practically turns it into 72 off. You're not thinking about the strength of the hand, you're re-raising basing on the crappiness of opponents hand. (You expect to win without showdown either preflop or with a CB.) 33 likes implied odds and they are being substanially reduced by raising.

You're not throwing away money by folding it. Playing it for set value is possibly close to neutral EV. (You only win the pot + a CB most of the time.)

I like calling, with the intention of folding sometimes, hitting a set sometimes, and stealing the pot sometimes? (Note that you'll often be stealing the pot with the best hand)

Answer Sheet
 

This was a quiz that tested your knowledge of Implied / Reverse-Implied Odds. Now I'm know genius and have only recently begun thinking about these concepts deeply.

I tried to create a quiz that hid which concepts I was trying to emphasize to see how people would respond. At the same time, I think it’s quite interesting how implied odds and reverse implied odds can have a counter intuitive logic.

Implied odds has a significant effect in all rounds of play. Although people often take them into consideration when figuring out how to play a draw, this concept is often over-looked preflop.

Some player simply think about the strength of their hand versus their opponents range. Instead it’s more beneficial to think how the hand is likely to play out (implied odds) given the relative strength of your hand vs your opponents range. Let’s see how this can be applied to the hands I posted.

Hand 1: FOLD. You are behind compared to his range. You have poor Reverse Implied Odds, even if you hit your Ace you’re likely to be behind or splitting the pot. It’ll be hard to get value out of your hand, since you’re OOP.

Hand 2: CALL. You have GOOD Implied Odds. If you hit your set, then you’re likely to be up against a strong hand by your opponent. Therefore, you can stack him.

Hand 3: RERAISE. Since it’s 6max, I think a reraise is the best play. However, I think the next best play is to fold. It’s hard to play hands oop against strong opponents. But since you’re hand is so much stronger than his range and since he plays a lot of Aces, you have good implied odds. The point of the reraise is to win it there or take control of the hand on the flop.

Hand 4: FOLD. You have Poor Implied Odds. Even though your hand is stronger than his range. It’ll be hard to play this hand oop against the opponent if you don’t flop a set. At the same time, even if you do flop a set, you’re unlikely to get paid-off since most flops miss your opponent.

Why it can be hard to grasp. You fold AQo and call with 33 against a strong range. You ReRaise with AQo and fold with 33 against a loose range.