What do you guys \"read\"?
 

Hey all,

If you're like me, one of your biggest weaknesses is getting good reads. I like many probably depend too much on PT/GT+ to provide my reads for me. I'd like to here what you guys normally look out for, what reads do you make, etc. Here's typically what I'm keeping on eye out for -

1) What does Villain limp in with?
2) What does V raise pre-flop?
3) What does V cold-call?
4) What will he bet on the flop with (with or without a pre-flop raiser)?
5) Will V bet when checked to him in late position on the flop or turn?
6) What will he check-raise?
7) What will he "wake-up" with?
8) what will he call on the river?
9) Is he tricky on the river?

Quite a bit I know but I'm looking for stuff out of the norm. So I won't take a note that someone will c/r on the turn with a set but I will note that he will with something like a flush draw. So what types of things are you guys looking out for?

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do you guys "read"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly fiction. Well, not fiction, but literature. Although, I've been known to dabble in some biographies. I'm a big fan of Faulkner.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I don't take many notes on 1-3. I mostly rely on my HUD for that info. I'll make a note if I see something really odd, or that differs from what one would expect based on stats. #4 and #8, though, are probably what I have my best notes on. The rest I'm usually making notes on, particularly if there's something out of line. It sounds like we're pretty much on the same page.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

One really important note I make of TAGs regard a couple of common but horrendous preflop errors:

Open limping in LP.

Not reraising to isolate a loose preflop raiser, but cold calling instead.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I check hand histories very often to see what players mucked. I'm looking to see who I can value bet and how low I can go.

I really don't care too much about pf play reads. Loose players are relatively tough to put on a hand until the flop anyways so I wait and see what the texture of the flop and and think about their probable range given their tightness and aggression pf. Tracking actual hands is a bit much because you don't get that many hands to SD to be terribly accurate before they leave.

I usually try to figure out what the source of the aggression was. I'm looking for things out of the ordinary that might cost me a pot by making e fold. Do they bet draws? How far do they go with these bets? Do they bet middle or bottom pair on the flop. Do they take shots at the pfr when the flop comes all low cards? When they wake up on the turn did they do it with a made hand or a hand the added outs like a flush draw? Do they bluff? Do they bluff raise? Do they bluff C/R? These are all things I'm most wary of because I am capable of folding in many situations but reads will prevent me from folding incorrectly.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I'm more concerned with how he plays postflop (especially 6m) like if he'll bet/raise something other than top pair, what/if he'll call down, if he overvalues weak pair or weak kicker or seems to be ignoring the board, if he only c-r with the goods, if he'll bet/raise draws/overs, what he does after pfr/overs and his position.

Since it takes awhile with a particular player to see all that most of my notes are for things that really stand out ("flop raised unders+bdsd"). If someone is particularly bad "moron" is about all I need to be reminded of...

Mike

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

A few things:

<ul type="square">[*] What will this player raise preflop with?[*] What will this player 3-bet preflop with?[*] Does this player seem positionally aware?[*] Does this player ever bet a draw or bluff?[*] Does this player call down with any part of the board (or a pocket pair)?[*] Is this player worth trying to isolate with marginal hands?[*] What will this player check/raise with?[*] With what hands will this player raise against a dangerous board?[/list]
Hope those are some good ideas.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

ToP has a nice section "evaluating the game"

on page 270 lists common mistakes and best stratergy against them.

anything that fits those descriptions I place, or anything they do I make a note of (bet here when blah blah)

if they are not afraid to raise some hands PF most don't (AJo, TT etc). Also, what hands they limp that most would raise (QQ, AKo etc)

and in general, allota stuff PF, worst thing they've limped with, worst thing they'ved raised with, what they've been CC'ing with.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

You might want to consider getting the Poker Ace HUD at http://pokeracesoftware.com

It'll automatically show mucked hands w/o having to crack open the HH.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

the ones you listed, and...
- if they bet draws
- what they showdown
- if they loosen up thier raising standards as thier position improves.

I also will make a note if I see them make a wild bluff or overplay top pair weak kicker etc. Sometimes I make very specific notes if I think it is important.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

PV does it for me

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to consider getting the Poker Ace HUD at http://pokeracesoftware.com

It'll automatically show mucked hands w/o having to crack open the HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy cow this is awesome. At .25/.50 knowing someone has checkraised ever is usefull sometimes, and I wish GT+ could display this. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

as an aside, i've been single-tabling 3/6 short &amp; trying to play w/o PT &amp; GT+ so i can develop more meaningful reads about ppl. i think its working well b/c its not boring b/c u play so many hands and you can focus in on how villains play in hands you're not in.

i'm like you, i just try to note quirks about villains like:
FPS; greedy
will slow down when played back @; call down if not sure

or little reminders for myself like
do not try to bluff, will call but will not bet himself. take free cards/showdowns when u want them

or
does not C/R w/o the goods; tho often times i have to go back and adjust notes like this

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to consider getting the Poker Ace HUD at http://pokeracesoftware.com

It'll automatically show mucked hands w/o having to crack open the HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that a lot

I've never used HUD's before, but it should help when im in multitable autopilot mode get my bonus cleared mode

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

as per Nfinity's suggestion in the first ML Digest: this thread should get more attention. i really think this is an underrated skill here on the boards. why do i say this?

because a majority of the posts here pathetically lack them, if we get any at all. the best they have are stats. a couple reasons for this:

1. Too much reliance on Poker programs
2. Read too much into stats
3. Auto-pilot play because it works
4. Multitabling
5. SSH "told me" and unwillingness to think on your own

why these are bad:
1. you win less
2. doesn't work at higher levels- only against straight forward play
3. a dependency on online play- w/o programs, you fall apart in Live play (B&amp;M)
4. when asking for help, improper advice based on bad reads (or lack thereof) leads to bad conclusions and future bad habits.

another reason possibly is because we at the micro level have resigned ourselves that
1. you can't bluff at the micros because they'll call you down with anything
2. we're happy if we're beating our "level" at xxBB/100 as others tell us that is a good win rate.
3. we'd rather complain about suckouts, bad beats, and people who play any 2 cards than push our minds to actually think if that suckout was actually our fault (making the pot too big where the mistake no longer was a mistake) or did we play our hand wrong.
4. duck our heads and barrel forward because "SSH said i will win X% of times, so i should keep blasting away"

I know a couple people will read this posting and think "bah, who cares?! these people play so much junk, it is impossible to get a read."- do you think it will get easier or harder as you progress?

Start pushing yourselves to develop hand-reading habits now. it doesn't have to be perfect; it isn't going to be easy; you will be wrong sometimes, but anybody can be content with playing 4-5 tables, grinding out 3-4BB/100 at $1/$2 stakes. if you're happy with that: that's fine. don't misunderstand me. but to progress to where the money is: we have got to do better than the little attention that was payed to this important thread, which got more attention from a poker program than actual reads.

why? it is either because people don't see it as that important to win or because people think it is easy- both are bad reasons. i'm going to be looking for some good hands played based on reads- any help is appreciated, but i do know most of Entity's posts all have very good detailed reads prefaced before each hand, so i'd encourage people to start getting examples from there.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]

1) What does Villain limp in with?
2) What does V raise pre-flop?
3) What does V cold-call?
4) What will he bet on the flop with (with or without a pre-flop raiser)?
5) Will V bet when checked to him in late position on the flop or turn?
6) What will he check-raise?
7) What will he "wake-up" with?
8) what will he call on the river?
9) Is he tricky on the river?


[/ QUOTE ]


If you're getting most or all of that then you're getting some pretty good reads already.

I try to keep it relatively simple by looking at what plays they seem to have in their repetoire.

I like to try to get a handle on any blind stealing tendencies at the table, anyone who is in love with the play, those who never try it, and who might be ideal victims.

How do they play overcards on a rag flop and how do they play small PP, if they play them at all in most positions.

I'm looking for who will bluff and who seems to fold more readily than average to a bet or a raise.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) What does Villain limp in with?
2) What does V raise pre-flop?
3) What does V cold-call?
4) What will he bet on the flop with (with or without a pre-flop raiser)?
5) Will V bet when checked to him in late position on the flop or turn?
6) What will he check-raise?
7) What will he "wake-up" with?
8) what will he call on the river?
9) Is he tricky on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good, but I think on the wrong track. 2+2ers in general are smart and analytical, and I think that's a common trait ammong successful poker players. So it's not a suprise that this sort of analysis is common among us. But I think that this sort of analysis looks at the trees, and forgets about the forest.

Things like GameTime+ and PokerEdge also are symptoms of this phenomenon. I'm sure they help, but I think there's a low ceiling on how much this sort of magnifying glass analysis can really help.

But these questions don't really address the broad strokes that make up our opponent. When we're looking at a flopped gutshot that was completed on the river and the opponent has been aggressive on every street, we should be asking ourselves, "Does our man's playing style fit this board?" and not, "Does this board fit our man's betting tendancies?"

Even if we could somehow achieve the ultimate in magnifying glass analysis and populate a SSH-style chart that maps out all the actions for all the starting hands for our opponent, we still would be wrong. Everbody mixes up thier play all the time; sometimes on purpose, very often not on purpose. An opponent may see an opportuntity to execute some play that's different from his norm, might be on tilt, might want "revenge" for a bad beat, or might be outplaying you. But the chart would be wrong.

I like to ask questions that are much more general than this. Things like:

Is the opponent passive or aggressive preflop?
Is he loose or tight preflop?
Is he passive or aggressive with draws postflop? Is he loose with draws?
Does he overvalue maginal hands?

And other questions which become apparent by watching our opponent play.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I'm definitely amongst the minority here as I still only single-table.

When I do single table, I also try to make a note of which players are multi-tabling. My assumption is that the players who are multi-tabling will be more distracted and more likely to use default plays. My blind-steal range for multi-tablers is a bit wider than for people who I think are paying closer attention. I also generally mark multi-tablers as skilled players so I have a bit more respect for their bets. (i.e. I assume they operate preflop according to the SSHE charts and are either value betting or betting to protect. I don't expect a lot of bluffing to be in their default strategy.)

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like to ask questions that are much more general than this. Things like:

Is the opponent passive or aggressive preflop?
Is he loose or tight preflop?
Is he passive or aggressive with draws postflop? Is he loose with draws?
Does he overvalue maginal hands?

And other questions which become apparent by watching our opponent play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Grunch, I think my questions may seem too "specific" but I generally use this info to help me fill out the broader, more important question. If I see my opponent cold-call with J7o I'm automatically putting him in some sort of loose pre-flop category. If he doesn't pre-flop raise with KK or QQ, I'm automatically labelling him in my mind as passive preflop. Thus my specific note actually covers a broad range for the opponent.

Same with post-flop play. If I see someone raise/the flop with a flush draw or a middle pair plus gutshot, I'm putting him as aggressive. If he's calling down with pocket 6's, he's in my mind passive and a good value bet candidate on the river.

I think we're talking about the same thing here but getting there differently, do you agree?

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think we're talking about the same thing here but getting there differently, do you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I agree. But we are going in opposite directions to get to the same goal. Your specific questions go from the inside out (trees to forest), whereas my questions go from the outside in (forest to trees).

I know that my approach works better for me, and I'm a very analytical person. I suspect that my approach would work better for a lot of people, but I wouldn't say that my way is "right". A lot of this comes from the fact that I think that many 2+2ers are far too reliant on stats, PT, GT+ and the like, when all the information they need is sitting in the seat next to them.

I see I'm about to ramble in soap-box mode, so hang on...

Here's an example. Suppose you have 50 hands on the opponent UTG, and his stats are 20/15. Think you know your man? Now suppose he opens for a raise UTG, then hands plays out, and he shows down Q9s. How do you feel about your stats now? Is he a LAGgy guy who has been cold-decked for 50 hands? Is he a TAG on tilt? Is he a donkey who is totally clueless? According to the stats, he's a fearful opponent. According to his actual play, he's still a bit unknown. A couple more hands will reveal his true nature far quicker than stats or other details-oriented analysis will.

End of rambling.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm definitely amongst the minority here as I still only single-table.

When I do single table, I also try to make a note of which players are multi-tabling. My assumption is that the players who are multi-tabling will be more distracted and more likely to use default plays. My blind-steal range for multi-tablers is a bit wider than for people who I think are paying closer attention. I also generally mark multi-tablers as skilled players so I have a bit more respect for their bets. (i.e. I assume they operate preflop according to the SSHE charts and are either value betting or betting to protect. I don't expect a lot of bluffing to be in their default strategy.)

[/ QUOTE ]

hey-
this is one way preconception may be working against you.
i used to think multitablers were sharks.
now i think they are more predictable.
but i don't assume they are not paying attention.
and, much of the time, default plays are default for a reason. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

The difficulty with reads and being a "numbers" player:

as many players here are, they like meticulous math. working the odds versus outs, pokerstove pot equity down to the exact percentage, and generally bogging down with the nitty-gritty. bordering on "anality".

this becomes a hinderance when trying to make a read. trying to put villain on the EXACT hand he has or remembering exactly each board and how they played the hand. Many players probably give up with reads because of this thinking "my math will save me" and "i'm winning already with the way i play, so i'm fine without the reads".

To read players, a helpful start is self-examination. Take notes of what you think, how you think, how you react to certain situations. When replaying hands, play from a villain's perspective: What would I think I have based on my play if I was villian? Transpose these into your play. Once this becomes easier, that is when you begin to think on a multilevel rather than just straightforward.

Another concept is preferences. Preflop calls, Raises, and Cold calls are made on what the villain likes to play: 2 overcards, suited cards, any Ace, suited overcards. Position and # of players in the hand. Start with working on ranging the preflop play- don't jump into postflop as preflop is the foundation of the hand.

Postflop is also preferences. A number of posts in this thread already address most of them: calling down with, c/r, etc. My encouragement is to ask questions rather than memorize villains every move. Develop a line of questioning as play continues to narrow down the range you put him on preflop.

Face the facts: you will be wrong on your read sometimes. Don't think you can't read people. Adjust. Take notes and put them in to PokerTracker for analysis later. A read is not instantaneous, but a process.

edit: i never did a "pooh-bah dissertation"- not that know enough to do one, but i'll just let this be it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i used to think multitablers were sharks.
now i think they are more predictable.
but i don't assume they are not paying attention.
and, much of the time, default plays are default for a reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Predictability is a very good thing for me. As a single tabler, I rely a lot more on my reads and predictable players make my decisions much easier.

I never said that I thought multi-tablers weren't paying attention. I'm just saying that they're less likely to remember how the table action has been over the last few orbits. I'm sure they'll catch on to any trick that's overused, but I'm not sure if they will notice that I'm treating them differently than other players.

Default plays are designed for default players(mostly loose passives). These plays are definitely profitable for the multi-tablers in the long run but I don't think those profits are coming from me. Almost universally, when players first start to multi-table they take a small hit to their BB/100. I like to think that I'm picking up what they're leaving behind. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I like this post, and I'd like to see more thoughts on this.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i used to think multitablers were sharks.
now i think they are more predictable.
but i don't assume they are not paying attention.
and, much of the time, default plays are default for a reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Predictability is a very good thing for me. As a single tabler, I rely a lot more on my reads and predictable players make my decisions much easier.

I never said that I thought multi-tablers weren't paying attention. I'm just saying that they're less likely to remember how the table action has been over the last few orbits. I'm sure they'll catch on to any trick that's overused, but I'm not sure if they will notice that I'm treating them differently than other players.

Default plays are designed for default players(mostly loose passives). These plays are definitely profitable for the multi-tablers in the long run but I don't think those profits are coming from me. Almost universally, when players first start to multi-table they take a small hit to their BB/100. I like to think that I'm picking up what they're leaving behind. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

oh for sure.

and i do it too...like in my "rock" thread where i tried a new line against a player like that. maybe ill-advised in that case though.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
edit: i never did a "pooh-bah dissertation"- not that know enough to do one, but i'll just let this be it

[/ QUOTE ]

Works for me. vnh

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I don't think I note as many specific things as some of the others mentioned, what I really like to do is note anything which seems unusual or exploitable.

Typically like to note their style in the first line of the read.

"LAG/LP/etc - cc's 2 pf a lot".

Then move to specific examples where they were too passive or aggressive:

"On turn/rivel almost always bets when checked to" - helps to set up a c/r against these type of players.

"Called f/t/r with bp / pp lower than board" - Don't try to push these people off the hand with UI overcards.

And always like to note if they 3bet/cap on turn/river with out the nuts or even close to and what they were betting with - these are the people you can win big pots from - "Capped on river with 2 pair on 4 to flush board".

Many people call down with weak draws but I like to note who is raising with them. They can be 3-bet / isolated on the flop when they raise their backdoor draws / bottom pairs.

Like to note what they are willing to c/r with and especially if they will bluff like this - "c/r bluff on turn with UI K7o" - this read is extremly helpful, as most c/r except against habitual bluffers, are scary.

And finally like to note their blind and position play; will they limp first in from LP or are aware of position? Do they defend their blinds too much / not enough?

I'm sure there is more but, mostly this is what I am doing currently when 3-tabling 6max. In general I like to note things which I deem unusual, which would make me deviate from a so called standard play.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

nh, @_L.

Grunch, it seems to me that the only way to arrive at a forest that doesn't involve stats is by collecting tree samples. Without any preliminary datamining stats from PE or whatever, everyone has to start with trees. All we have is the play of an increasing number of specific hands, and our job is to add that up into a picture of a player. I don't see a good way to arrive at these general tendancies that you're talking about without taking in some details.

Now, every good poker player knows not to try to put an opponent on one specific hand. The good players know to put players on a gradually decresing range of hands as more information becomes available, and the very best players know to possibly add some hands that weren't considered in the original range if things change dramatically. By analogy, we shouldn't automatically can a player into a specific read, which seems to be exactly what you're advocating. As we acquire new specifics, we should narrow or expand our read as appropriate. If I observe that a player has a couple of times donkbet a ragged flop with second pair, crappy kicker into a preflop raiser, but he'll check/raise top pair, it's pretty easy to start to narrow his holdings. Then, however, if I spot him check/raising bottom pair, I have to refine my read and add more hands to his possible ranges when I encounter this situation next. It's a big, broad, dynamic process, and I think that's exactly what you're advocating. Maybe your memory is better than mine, but I know that personally, I'd never be able to come up with a decent dynamic read in this fashion without starting by making some notes on the specifics.

Lastly, I really like having VPIP and PFR stats. They give me a lot of easy information that greatly restricts an opponents possible holdings. They're great, as long as you don't use them in an overly restrictive manner. In your Q9 example, it's just a case of looking at an opponent against whom you'd want to tread carefully, but now you have to add in the possibilities of tilt and/or a stretch of cold cards that happened to a serious LAG. Expand your range, but be on alert to keep narrowing it.

Edit: When I said, "we shouldn't automatically can a player into a specific read, which seems to be exactly what you're advocating," it looks like it didn't come out like I wanted it to. I meant that you're advocating a broad, dynamic read, not the canned read. I think the bulk of my post was agreeing with you, but I get there in the same manner as davelin.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
By analogy, we shouldn't automatically can a player into a specific read, which seems to be exactly what you're advocating.

[/ QUOTE ]

If by this you mean that I advocate not narrowing down our reads too much, then I agree. Most of my reads end up as something like, "well based on the kind of player he is, he could have two pair, a straight, a busted flush draw..." and then my action is based on this range.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe your memory is better than mine, but I know that personally, I'd never be able to come up with a decent dynamic read in this fashion without starting by making some notes on the specifics.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I always felt that my memory was always a hinderance to my success, becasue it's not any better than average - perhaps worse. That's actually why I focus on generalities. There's much less to remember that way.

I think we're in agreement, and just wanted to clarify that we agree.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
One really important note I make of TAGs regard a couple of common but horrendous preflop errors:

Open limping in LP.



[/ QUOTE ]

Open limping late position nice with stronger hands especially if blinds play tight.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One really important note I make of TAGs regard a couple of common but horrendous preflop errors:

Open limping in LP.



[/ QUOTE ]

Open limping late position nice with stronger hands especially if blinds play tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blind-stealing nicer with weaker hands if the blinds play tight.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

Hi Droolie.

[ QUOTE ]
I check hand histories very often to see what players mucked. I'm looking to see who I can value bet and how low I can go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd suggest giving PokerAce HUD a try if you don't already use it or PV. The ability to see hands mucked at showdown without having to go into the HH is slick. I hardly even find myself having to mess around with HHs anymore, which frees up a least a little more of my brain for other stuff.

Edit: Apparently I'm the bazillionth person to mention this.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I'm not going to weigh in on the HUD v No HUD debate. Especially since it increasingly resembles an internecine rift.

We all have a pretty good idea about how certain broad player types behave. Better players probably start with smaller groups. Really good players may work the level of individuals. I'm not close to really good, so I do the best I can.

I start with things that are contrary to apparent type. A LP-P player that likes to bet draws or bluff. An apparently tight/passive pf player raising with Ax in early position. A predictably aggressive pf player l/rr'ing something.

Part of learning how to play ABC poker is coming to understand (at least in part) the general player types. When trying to refine my read, I focus on trying to build a mini pseudo-psychological profile. Do they fall back on aggression or passivity when pushed? How much gamble do they have in them? Do they plan to call every hand down without a compelling reason to fold or the opposite? How often do they vary their play? It's less a matter of cataloguing specific plays than an effort to build a baseline read to help me evaluate future plays.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I have an example that kind of goes along with what everyone is saying.

Playing 1/2 6max I get 99 and raise after a couple of open limpers.

Flop comes 8-high rainbow with a gutshot draw(5 6 8 or something) Open limper to my right bets. I pull up the notes.

"CR's Flp'd Sets on Trn"
"Plays Draws pssve until made"
"Raises Strng Prs Pre-Flp"

Villian could very well be deviating from the norm but this makes me feel safer in raising for value and protection, with one guy left behind me. Villian 3-bets and I call.

Turn comes a blank. Villian Checks.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I feel kind of lost, I don't want to walk into a CR but I don't want to give a free card to an overplayed AK so I bet and villian calls. I'm still confused.

River comes a 4 and villian Checks. I bet and he raises. I call thinking "that is a really overplayed 7,8 you have there" and he tables 77.

I immediately make a note that villian puts more value to draws+made hands.

I think this story best illustrates that reads fill in the empty spaces. Like landscaping, occasionally you need a tree here and there. For me, I hate being confused by a player, it makes me feel like somehow he's winning the battle of wits at the table. I make the reads that will make everything less confusing.

Common situations are how an opponent plays a paired board. Not only when they have something but when they don't. Sometimes players will peel on a paired board with with a hand they would fold with on a regular board, just because they feel it's less likely you have a piece.

I think reads should be anything that confuses you about the player. Whether its Flop play, play with PP's, sexual orientation, or why they like the show "HeeHaw", if you are confused, they are getting the best of you whether they mean too or not. My goal is to not let them get the best of me.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So what types of things are you guys looking out for?

[/ QUOTE ]

i play sessions of 1-2 hours (lunch hour specials) of B&amp;M low limit at places like Commerce, Bike, &amp; Hollypark in Los Angeles, my job has me visiting clients around town...also i play at various casinos in Vegas when i'm on vacation...in general i look to see how many people are seeing the flop and how much rasing is going on per round--i adjust my starting hand selection based on that...for a specific player i note cold-calls, what round they tend to fold on, and if they fold or not when their turn bet is raised...usually, these game play rapidly as the dealer is pushing the game forward, so i don't talk much and don't sweat a villian for physical reads...its loot and scoot for me--if i don't see the fish, i figure the others have pegged me as it and i leave early to go get lunch...

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I don't use PT so reads are important for me. Since I usually play 2 tables I generally don't look for the detail you are. My strategy is to have some idea of what the average unknown is for the level I play and then adjust that when I see things that stand out. Also, I look for things that are going to make my decisions easier in the future. I don't want to open up their notes and see 5 lines of details to look over. I want to open it up and see something like "calling station/passive", "donk bet flop with middle pair and A showing", "chased gutshot draw", "overplayed top pair weak kicker", or "raised flush draw on the turn." I want notes on specific plays that are incorrect and that characterize my opponent well. I'll add in something like "calling station/passive" or "overaggressive" when I see a pattern.

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

I make notes if villian has a characteristic that may get me to make a big mistake. Or characteristics that I can take advantage of.

ie. gets out of line with underpairs
will 3bet and lead turn/river w/ overs
peels flops w/ [censored]
thnks 2nd pair is the nuts HU
Will call down any flop raise after a PFR.
will bet only made hands into PFRs.

etc etc

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I make notes if villian has a characteristic that may get me to make a big mistake. Or characteristics that I can take advantage of.

ie. gets out of line with underpairs
will 3bet and lead turn/river w/ overs
peels flops w/ [censored]
thnks 2nd pair is the nuts HU
Will call down any flop raise after a PFR.
will bet only made hands into PFRs.

etc etc

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I almost never take notes on players, but when I do its exactly what Kwazzie mentioned, as well as some along the lines of "RvrCR=Goods"

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

bumping one of my favs...

Re: What do you guys \"read\"?
 

important things to consider is

what they raise with
do they bluff - are they stealing pots with bluffs when no one hits the flop.
how aggressive are they preflop and postflop
how tight are they - tight players will often fold if they haven't hit the flop, you can use this to steal their blinds and bluff them
Showdowns - does a player always head for a showdown with any pair and don't bluff them if they do.
coldcall - what do they cold call with

without stats you want to get an idea of how many hands they play and what hands they raise with. If they are very loose then you can tell their hand strength from raising.